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Old 01-15-2014, 11:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aviastar View Post
The other city I lived in (and really liked) - Winter Haven/Orlando - does not have nearly the assets that KC has, aside from the weather. I don't understand why we residents would want to throw good money after things that we don't want just because some people in other cities have determined that they are "cool"...A.K.A super high density, light rail, gentrification, carless access, etc...
Exactly. If we wanted those things we could go somewhere else to find them. What we like about KC is that it is NOT like those other places. I don't know why that's so hard for some people to understand.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aviastar View Post
Yes, but aside from schools and crime in the inner city, what does KC really need to improve? We have great things here already...I have lived in Overland Park for about a year now and it really doesn't seem to be lacking much for most the metro (including both sides of the State Line). I would bet if you polled most people here, they wouldn't want to be like DC..or Pittsburgh...or those other cities. And why should it matter if a neighborhood is "vibrant"...we have enough vibrancy in many parts of the city here (for the people that like that style of neighborhood).
Vibrant is a new catchword kcmo learned since moving to DC. If "vibrant" means urban, I don't want it!
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aviastar View Post
The other city I lived in (and really liked) - Winter Haven/Orlando - does not have nearly the assets that KC has, aside from the weather. I don't understand why we residents would want to throw good money after things that we don't want just because some people in other cities have determined that they are "cool"...A.K.A super high density, light rail, gentrification, carless access, etc...
Right. KC is just fine with lots of sprawl, lots of blight and a sprinkling of (really good) cultural destinations sprinkled the city in that you can drive to. There are a few people there that do want more than that and I wanted that when I lived there. So it does happen, but it's just a very slow process there.

It is what it is.

Luz, I follow development in cities all across the country, not just kc. Honestly not much happens in KC, it's pretty easy to follow development there. There is a single apartment tower (cordish) that's been trying to go up since 2007. Once that's up the city might see another follow it by 2020. Pretty easy to follow that.

A few smaller apartment developments near the plaza and river market, small hotel in crossroads.

IKEA, Village West, Cerner Project at Bannister, random JOCO office parks and maybe metro North Mall?

There you are up to date!
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luzianne View Post
Vibrant is a new catchword kcmo learned since moving to DC. If "vibrant" means urban, I don't want it!
I like it, so I am not trying to knock it...I have considered moving to a more urban neighborhood...but I also recognize that we don't need it everywhere throughout the city. The cool thing about KC is it offers the best of both worlds for what different people want. In Winter Haven I had to drive north for an hour to get into the city for the best nightlife...(or go to Tampa which I rarely did). Here in KC, the few "vibrant" neighborhoods we have in this city seem to serve the population well and are close enough to get to from most parts of the city.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aviastar View Post
I like it, so I am not trying to knock it...I have considered moving to a more urban neighborhood...but I also recognize that we don't need it everywhere throughout the city. The cool thing about KC is it offers the best of both worlds for what different people want. In Winter Haven I had to drive north for an hour to get into the city for the best nightlife...(or go to Tampa which I rarely did). Here in KC, the few "vibrant" neighborhoods we have in this city seem to serve the population well and are close enough to get to from most parts of the city.
Best of both worlds? KC's urban areas are not that great comparatively speaking. I'm from Brookside and I love the area and it's one of the best urban hoods in the midwest, although it's almost suburban really and it's small and one of the only major intact urban neighborhoods in KC that is truly walkable and livable with groceries, retail, recreation etc. There are pockets of decent areas in the rest of KC, but they all lack major components of working urban neighborhood. There is just not that much demand in KC or most of Midtown KC would have transformed by now. It took an out of town developer and bank to bring back the Armour Blvd buildings and even give people an option to live there and it will take decades to rebuild the image of Armour in metro for most area residents.

KC has nice suburbs. They look great on paper, good schools, safe and all that. But they are not any different than the suburbs of any other city.

You can get away from any city just as easily as KC and hit the countryside, but most cities have far more lively recreational opportunities in the actual city and metro than KC does. KC's urban parks and empty, and urban recreation is nearly non-existent there compared to most large cities. The parks and greenways the city does have are almost ignored. (Brush Creek corridor, Berkley Park, Penn Valley Park, Swope Park).

It would cost money to build those fancy pedestrian bridges that other cities have, you know, more worldly and deserving cities like Omaha and Des Moines...
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:46 PM
 
99 posts, read 90,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post

It would cost money to build those fancy pedestrian bridges that other cities have, you know, more worldly and deserving cities like Omaha and Des Moines...
It seems silly to run down the list of every thing that any city has and compare it to KC. There is no real reason to benchmark KC against those cities if most of the KC residents are happy with the city as is. We are not Des Moines or Omaha...I am sure those are fine cities, just as Orlando is a fine city. But I didn't expect KC to be like Orlando...

KC has its own unique qualities and those are what should be celebrated and enjoyed by residents - not how we "stack up" against other cities in rather arbitrary categories.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aviastar View Post
It seems silly to run down the list of every thing that any city has and compare it to KC. There is no real reason to benchmark KC against those cities if most of the KC residents are happy with the city as is. We are not Des Moines or Omaha...I am sure those are fine cities, just as Orlando is a fine city. But I didn't expect KC to be like Orlando...

KC has its own unique qualities and those are what should be celebrated and enjoyed by residents - not how we "stack up" against other cities in rather arbitrary categories.
And we can just leave it at that! It was a pleasure. I enjoyed my rant.
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:07 AM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
10,392 posts, read 7,172,997 times
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Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Yea, way out by Dulles. They are actually building mixed use near the beltway now and if you really know DC, you would know that there are many true mixed use and transit friendly suburban developments and business centers in the suburbs of both MD and VA. Even Baltimore has more livable and vibrant urban neighborhoods than KC and even Baltimore is seeing major corporate investment in the downtown area, something totally lacking in KC.

While Baltimore has more true urban neighborhoods than KC you can't even begin to compare DC to KC as far as urban gentrification.

And urban recreation, transit use, walking etc? Different worlds.

Oh and an area with DC plus TWO states gets along better than the KC area does on regional issues. Trains and buses actually cross state and county lines.

And corporate welfare? You can find cases of it being used, but very few and they are nothing like KC. Even in Baltimore where you would think they would use it they don't. A company wants to build a new office tower in downtown Baltimore and the city doesn't want to give them a simple tif. We are not talking the stuff that KC does like supertiff, star bonds, earnings tax reimbursements, overlay sales taxes or just a lot of cash (kansas). Just a little tif or property tax abatement.

Regardless, more goes on in one tiny area of a tiny part of central DC than KC sees in decades.

You don't want to compare KC to the DC area. They don't compare.

What I do see is cities like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati and Columbus, Nashville and Charlotte and Indianapolis and Austin and even Denver or Minneapolis doing things that KC should be doing. Those are peers to KC.

Those cities have better regional corporation and civic minded corporate communities. Check out how metro Denver gets along so well regionally, how the twin cities are on the same page, how northern KY works so well with the Ohio side of Cincy.

KC has plenty of missed potential.
And one of KC's best attributes is that they have the good sense to keep missing it.
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Old 01-16-2014, 10:28 AM
 
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I think those promoting 'the' airport being in JoCo have talked about using New Century, not building a brand new airport. I'm guessing that would only take expanding the terminal and beefing up the 56 interchange into Gardner, which could be done for around or under $1.2 billion. No one is promoting this $20-30 billion nonsense of tearing down half of KCK (or wherever) to do this.

And for the 'but our airport is fine' crowd, it's totally possible to have a small terminal that isn't the cluster that is OHare, DFW, or Atlanta.

As for the DC comparisons, not everyone wants total government control, an insanely high cost of living, and the nation's worst traffic, just because the two or more sides of the metro 'get along'.
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:30 AM
 
2,202 posts, read 2,558,525 times
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This thread is way down the classic KCMO rabbit hole of woe-is-me-KC-doesn't-do-anything-right, NOWHERE-else-has-these-problems, or if they do, they are NOWHERE NEAR AS BADDDD!!!! hyperbole and negativity.

For a guy that travels a lot, you sure do get sucked into your own vortex of lack of perspective quite easily.

Poor public schools, aging infrastructure, limited vibrant urban neighborhoods, suburbanization, population loss, resistance to transit, and all that are neither unique to KC nor particularly worse than its peers.

KC schools are absolutely no worse than DC schools, blowing your vibrant neighborhoods theory. Also, who in their right mind would compare a midsized regional city in the midwest to the Capital of the ****ing Country (or for that matter an old industrial city in the same metro) in the densest most urban region of the US. Why in God's name would they be similar in culture, amenities, neighborhoods or anything else.

KC parks are well-used, often teaming with people, Swope is the 39th most visited City Park in the country, The Trolley Track Trail is never empty in any weather, the suburban trails and parks are well used, Loose is a destination park for residents all over the metro, Mill Creek is constantly used, the Northeast parks are promenades for Hispanic couples and picnickers throughout the warm weather months, there are people in Rosedale Park, Waterworks, Antioch, Penguin Park, and Theis all the time. Are big, wild parks have great, well-used trails for bikes and hikers and wonderful topography and nature.

Many of the peers you listed have just as much trouble as KC, some more with certain issues, some less with others, but none of them are universally "doing things KC should be doing" except a few that aren't really peers at all (MPLS, Denver). And for every one of those, I can show you something KC is doing that they should be.

Cincy has of late had a little trouble with big, new ideas and their implementation if I'm not mistaken.

Columbus doesn't have any fixed rail transit or a good airport, either.

Charlotte is a poor comparison culturally, but evenso its not without many of the same suburban tendencies and wild examples of corporate welfare.

Austin is a particularly poor comparison, almost laughably so, but its as sprawling, suburbanized and poorly served by transit and vibrant neighborhoods (outside of the Texas-sized college-town pockets) as KC.

Nashville isn't doing a damn thing KC isn't or hasn't already done.

Ditto Indy, even less so in fact.

Minneapolis and Denver are exemplars of new-economy urban regional centers and are both quite a bit bigger than KC, and its not because of their airports or light rail. It's because of their demographics.

KC is a very nice regional center, has a great urban core, with lots of functional urban neighborhoods besides Brookside (in fact, better ones than Brookside). Its small, it suffers from its poor relationship with its suburbs, and its not a boomtown, it never will be, its stable, and most of the wild swings of fortune are mellowed by that civic conservatism, but its thriving, its losing less population in its core than most of its midwestern peers, its building rail transit, has done transformative things with its downtown and it shows, its neither sleepy nor bustling, its fairly mellow and its going to remain that way. Seems like your not really into that lifestyle, and that's cool. I never thought Annapolis was particularly bustling, vibrant or fun either, and the DC metro outside of Baltimore is one of the least interesting places in America to my mind. I'm sure many people feel the same way about KC, and that I can understand, but the idea that KC is exceptionally dysfunctional is just full-on wrong.

Last edited by SPonteKC; 01-16-2014 at 11:41 AM..
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