Royals Downtown Ballpark rendering (Kansas City, Lee's Summit: apartments, neighborhood, construction)

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by rwiksell

I guess I wasn't very clear. The rendering you provided shows the stadium plopped directly on top of Oak St, cutting it off for two blocks. But it seems like if you shifted the site one block to the east then you wouldn't have to remove any significant rights of way.

Yea, I wasn't trying to be precise with the rendering. It's more to just give an idea how a ballpark in that area might tie into the rest of downtown. I see what you are saying though.

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by Mauidreemn

You didn't type this with a straight face.....right? I hope not because it's complete bs. We've been making a tour of US stadiums and this just isn't true and definitely not true for Denver.

If I understand you right, you're taking issue with denverian saying "In urban ballparks, there is no "sea" of parking surrounding the stadium", and that you believe that's not true.

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by MOKAN

If I understand you right, you're taking issue with denverian saying "In urban ballparks, there is no "sea" of parking surrounding the stadium", and that you believe that's not true.

I'm on denverian's side here, that there generally is not a sea of parking surrounding urban ballparks. But there is one striking exception to this rule, and that's Dodger Stadium in Downtown LA. Ridiculous...

[kcmo]

I wouldn't call it downtown LA. It's on a bluff, very isloated from Downtown and surrounded by single family low density housing. It's a pain to drive to that stadium from Downtown LA, let alone walk. There are some stadiums in more urban areas with lots of parking. Philly, Mets etc.

But there are a lot more parks that are in very built up areas of central cities and Denver is one of them, even though there are some parking lots on the north side of the Coors.

[rwiksell]

I don't have much room to talk about LA, but my guess is that this site COULD BE part of downtown if all that parking wasn't there. The south corner of the lot is right at one mile from Grand Park, which by some accounts is at the heart of Downtown LA. If I was a resident nearby, I would lobby for at least half of this parking to be converted to parkland and added to Elysian Park. If I was a downtown developer, I'd be making offers on that land for commercial development that would more than pay for the Dodgers to replace it with some multi-story parking structures.

If it's isolated from downtown, it's LA's (or the Dodgers') own fault.

P.S. It's no farther from the center of downtown LA than the 20th & Oak location you suggest for a new Royals stadium is from 12th & Main in KC. And Philly's stadium is a lot more like the Truman Sports Complex, with multiple facilities sharing a huge parking lot. It's 6.5 miles from downtown, compared to TSC's 7.5 miles.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by rwiksell

I don't have much room to talk about LA, but my guess is that this site COULD BE part of downtown if all that parking wasn't there. The south corner of the lot is right at one mile from Grand Park, which by some accounts is at the heart of Downtown LA. If I was a resident nearby, I would lobby for at least half of this parking to be converted to parkland and added to Elysian Park. If I was a downtown developer, I'd be making offers on that land for commercial development that would more than pay for the Dodgers to replace it with some multi-story parking structures.

If it's isolated from downtown, it's LA's (or the Dodgers') own fault.

P.S. It's no farther from the center of downtown LA than the 20th & Oak location you suggest for a new Royals stadium is from 12th & Main in KC. And Philly's stadium is a lot more like the Truman Sports Complex, with multiple facilities sharing a huge parking lot. It's 6.5 miles from downtown, compared to TSC's 7.5 miles.

I have been to games at both Dodgers and Phillies.

It's just the topography of the area. It's like Kemper arena. It's only a mile from downtown, but it may as well be in Mission KS as far as how it interacts with downtown KCMO. Same with Dodgers stadium.

Philly's stadiums are just like the KC Sports Complex. That's basically what I was saying. There are "some" urban stadiums with parking. Philly and LA are both great examples. But there are many more urban stadiums that blend into the fabric of downtowns.

BTW, Phillies stadiums may be about the same distance from the city center, but Philly's stadiums are in a very different area. They are right on the edge of very dense city neighborhoods and there is subway access. Even with all that parking, tons of people take the train or park in the neighborhoods and walk.

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by kcmo

I have been to games at both Dodgers and Phillies.

It's just the topography of the area. It's like Kemper arena. It's only a mile from downtown, but it may as well be in Mission KS as far as how it interacts with downtown KCMO. Same with Dodgers stadium.

Philly's stadiums are just like the KC Sports Complex. That's basically what I was saying. There are "some" urban stadiums with parking. Philly and LA are both great examples. But there are many more urban stadiums that blend into the fabric of downtowns.

BTW, Phillies stadiums may be about the same distance from the city center, but Philly's stadiums are in a very different area. They are right on the edge of very dense city neighborhoods and there is subway access. Even with all that parking, tons of people take the train or park in the neighborhoods and walk.

I getcha. But it's still hard for me to think of Philadelphia's stadiums as "urban". They're much closer to urbanity than KC's stadiums, but you're sort of choosing to reject that moniker when you slap a square mile of parking between you and everything else in the city. If it's truly urban, in my mind, the value of that land is going to be WAAY too high to use for surface parking. Granted, there always needs to be at least a little surface parking. But nowhere near this much.

[kcmo]

Are we arguing about something? If so, I'm not sure why. I think we are totally agreeing with each other for the most part. I didn't mean to say that Philly stadiums are urban. That's not what I meant. I guess my post was misunderstood. The stadiums are in an urban/industrial area (KC's are in a suburban/industrial area). But they are still in a gigantic parking lot. Same with LA. That's all I was saying. Phillies stadiums function about the same as KC's, although as I mentioned, more people take transit and there are places to walk to beyond the parking lots. Cordish is building some nonsense (canned entertainment district, ie smaller version of P&L District) in the parking lot of the stadiums which I'm sure will be popular on games days. It would be nice to KC did "something" with the parking lots or area around the stadiums. All this talk about a downtown kc stadium is fun, but it's NEVER going to happen in KC. That boat has sailed and even when the issues comes up again, people will want to keep the stadiums in a suburban location and by then, the available places to build downtown will probably be slim and the cost will still be way to high for KC residents to swallow.

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Are we arguing about something? If so, I'm not sure why. I think we are totally agreeing with each other for the most part. I didn't mean to say that Philly stadiums are urban. That's not what I meant. I guess my post was misunderstood. The stadiums are in an urban/industrial area (KC's are in a suburban/industrial area). But they are still in a gigantic parking lot. Same with LA. That's all I was saying. Phillies stadiums function about the same as KC's, although as I mentioned, more people take transit and there are places to walk to beyond the parking lots. Cordish is building some nonsense (canned entertainment district, ie smaller version of P&L District) in the parking lot of the stadiums which I'm sure will be popular on games days. It would be nice to KC did "something" with the parking lots or area around the stadiums. All this talk about a downtown kc stadium is fun, but it's NEVER going to happen in KC. That boat has sailed and even when the issues comes up again, people will want to keep the stadiums in a suburban location and by then, the available places to build downtown will probably be slim and the cost will still be way to high for KC residents to swallow.

I love the smell of sensibility in the morning.

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Are we arguing about something? If so, I'm not sure why. I think we are totally agreeing with each other for the most part.

Yep. Just splitting hairs for the sake of conversation, I guess. Slow day at work...