Downtown parking

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by KC_Sleuth

Oh here we go again...yes let's glorify the wonderful days of yore (and buy into that whole 'greatest generation' hooey/bullcr-p being pushed for decades now). Our parents and grandparents were not immune to stupid decisions and dumb traditions, ya know. Their were plenty of dopes in America in the '40s and '50s, and half the people have always been dumber than the average, no matter what time period.

Either way, our descendants will have to decide that they agree with the decisions of some of their ancestors, and disagree with others. So I don't really think the "greatest generation" angle has anything to do with it.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by rwiksell

I'm going to try to respond to both sub-threads going on here.

GARAGE PARKING: If you admit that there was no traffic, then why was your problem Downtown KCMO's fault? What does it even have to do with urban development? You just had the bad luck of finding yourself in a private parking garage that wouldn't empty efficiently. The entire issue was contained within the structure. I don't think KCMO can do anything to help you at that point. Even my argument about mass transit becomes irrelevant, because you're always going to have full parking garages near events, and if the traffic on the street isn't an issue, then there's something wrong with the garage itself. It's like blaming Overland Park because there are long lines at Macy's.

THE FUTURE OF SUBURBIA: You may not believe that every generation is automatically more prosperous than the last, but you do believe that there is always an "ebb and flow". This is also presumptuous. I don't know if this is blind faith in the American Dream or what, but there will not always be a "flow". Some things just change, and never change back (otherwise, every prosperous empire that's ever existed would still be in the picture.)

And it's not like society has waffled back and forth between cities and suburbs for centuries. The large-scale emptying of dense urban areas into bedroom communities and edge cities has only ever happened once in history, and really only in the United States to boot (I almost said North America, but I don't think it really happened in Canada.) Suburbanization is a historical/geographical anomaly--an experiment, if you will--and this fact removes any "guarantee" that populations will return to it once they've left.

Don't get me wrong. It might happen. Or it might not. And no matter what happens, I still believe the suburban lifestyle will be an option for those who prefer it, and can afford it. Fortunately, there are more and more viable options for those who prefer to live (and raise a family) in an urban setting. Even if the pendulum swings back towards suburbia as a majority preference, I hope that both options will continue to exist (unlike in the 60s-90s where it was virtually considered child abuse to intentionally move into urban KCMO, for instance, and send your kids to public school there.)

P.S. Try to keep in mind that "urban" living and "downtown" living are not synonymous. You talk about people living close to work and not needing a car, etc. But the vast majority of urban dwellers are living outside of downtowns proper, in low-rises or townhomes or row-houses. There are even urban neighborhoods with detached single-family dwellings and 1-car garages, they just happen to be compact with very small yards. So let's not cram all of urbanity into a single stereotype, ok?

I didn't blame KC at all. I even said it could have been due to one idiot in the parking garage that was too timid to pull out of the lot and was holding up traffic trying to get out of the garage. I don't KNOW what the problem was; I just know that something somewhere wasn't working right, because it shouldn't take an hour to start moving when you are trying to get out of a parking garage.

And I ignored the jabs by various posters with comments about the Great Mall (as if that has anything to do with this) and about Kemper and insinuations/stereotypes about people from Johnson County, all of which were posted just to try to get a rise out of me. But then kcmo started with his downright snotty/condescending comments, and yes - if he is going to promote development downtown, I expect more than a flippant answer based on his hatred for Johnson County.

Actually, before suburbs, people were mostly RURAL. People would go into town to buy supplies, etc., but the vast majority didn't LIVE in towns/villages/cities.

I lived in both the city and in urban areas growing up and just for a short time in the suburbs. Even as a kid I didn't like living in urban areas. We lived in basically a row house with a small patch of grass in the front and dirt in the back. I had lived in rural areas before with room to run and play and explore, so to me living in an urban environment was very confining compared to what I was used to. But I also didn't like rural living because I didn't like being so isolated.

To me, the suburbs offer the best of both worlds.

I don't think there is any guarantee that people will return to the urban core, either. To me, there's no reason to go back and I don't want to go back.

[KC_Sleuth]

Originally Posted by rwiksell

Either way, our descendants will have to decide that they agree with the decisions of some of their ancestors, and disagree with others. So I don't really think the "greatest generation" angle has anything to do with it.

I was referring to CrownVic's tendency to talk glowingly of previous generations while denouncing the current one as foolish. My point was that most of the time, talk about the greatness of previous generations is just a bunch of hot air.

[kcmo]

This post is more for others that will come here looking for parking info. I honestly don't think you will ever be happy visiting downtown KC and will always find reasons to make it a miserable experience for yourself.

But for others that might find this thread, parking in downtown KC is easy, cheap (or free) and plentiful.

https://www.visitkc.com/visitors/get...wn-parking-map



So as you can see there are a ton of garages to choose from. I would probably avoid the big garages across the street from the arena especially the fully underground garages. The KC Live garage and Town Pavilion are not really set up for mass exiting (like you see at garages near stadiums etc) and they are probably expensive during special events. I know the Live garage would be a terrible place to park if you plan to leave right after a large event. I would also avoid the Barney Allis Plaza Garage because the streets don't flow well around it.

If you are just going to the arena, then I would just use the Oak garage. It's a huge above ground garage that is very close to the arena that most people don't know about because it's northeast of the arena.

If you are doing other things downtown and plan to eat or what not, then you can't beat the Kauffman Center garage. It's only a few blocks (certainly no further than walking from surface lots to Kauffman, Arrowhead, Starlight etc), but a pleasant walk through the convention and entertainment districts. It's a very safe, secure and super cheap place to park and it would be easy in and out.

Directions & Parking | Kauffman Center for the Performing Arts

Parking for performance events is $8 cash at the Arts District Garage. On non-event days, parking is free for the first 30 minutes and $3 for any duration beyond 30 minutes. Additionally, valet parking service is available on performance evenings for $18 cash

Oh and hopefully starting next year, people will park in the big union station garage and take the streetcar directly to the P&L District. It would also help if they straitened out the very confusing and nearly useless (for P&L/Sprint center visitors) MAX line and ran it in a straight line from the river market to crown center so people could park in crown center and the river market and take MAX to the P&L and Sprint Center as well. Will people from the burbs take advantage of transit once its in place? I honestly don't know and have my doubts, but it should be a great alternative to trying to park across the street from everything.

[luzianne]

Um, kcmo - I didn't make it a miserable experience for myself. But you have to throw that out there just like your other jabs because I'm from Johnson County and you HATE that. That's what this is really all about. I was fine with my Saturday night; I just thought waiting an hour to get out of the parking garage after a concert was too long. If you read my posts in this thread, until YOU came along in this thread it was just a conversation. YOU turned it into something else.

And I wasn't in an underground garage.

You shouldn't tell people parking downtown is cheap or free. That depends on where you park and what is going on. When there is an event like a concert, you are going to pay for parking and it could be up to $20 or so.

[wwmaps]

We park on the street near the KC Star building all the time for Sprint Center events. Free, easy exit, well-lit. First Friday in Crossroads and Sunday AM near River Market definitely present parking difficulty, however. The streetcar will really help us there.