How "southern" is Kansas City? (St. Louis, Jackson: car, station)

[SunGrins]

Originally Posted by SPonteKC

The idea that there’s a “correct” expression of midwestern culture, and that that expression is somehow more authentic in places like the northern Midwest, is ridiculous, and ignores the fact that everywhere in the Midwest is influenced by external cultural forces.

I've argued that the entire concept of "Midwest" is flawed -- simply a label of bureaucratic convenience. It is an archaic version of "fly-over country" and makes no serious attempt at accuracy. The region is too big to be lumped under one label. That's partly why we have all of these sub-regions like "corn belt", "Missouri Valley", "Plains states", etc -- attempting to impose some sort of precision in the state grouping. You don't see that as much in other regions (except maybe the south). Saying "I'm from the Midwest" means almost nothing.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

It averages out very close to north-central Illinois per the population of all states in the Midwest, and the fact that there are relatively few people living in the Great Plains.

Basically exactly where I grew up.

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

Let’s see.. 46+ million people living in the Great Lakes states, and 22 million people in the western part of the region. So, yes, Illinois is the median center of population in the Midwest, and there should be no debate about that.

Again, assuming you are even marginally correct, and we both know you’re spitballing pretty hard (pulling your old canards, conveniently conflating the Great Lakes region with the Great Lakes states and all other manner of mental gymnastics), your argument is that a culture is most accurately defined by how things are near its median center of population?

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by SPonteKC

Again, assuming you are even marginally correct, and we both know you’re spitballing pretty hard (pulling your old canards, conveniently conflating the Great Lakes region with the Great Lakes states and all other manner of mental gymnastics), your argument is that a culture is most accurately defined by how things are near its median center of population?

From a geographical perspective of any outsider not familiar with the Midwest, Illinois is the most demographically representative of the region as a whole, as well as nationally for better or worse. In terms of population age structure demographics, it mirrors the US as a whole. When people think of the Midwest, Chicago is an obvious big factor, as it is the largest metro/city in the region. Also, the state has a portion of the Great Lakes shoreline, has a significant agricultural and manufacturing components, university towns, and southern hinterlands by the Ohio River that have significant southern influences. So, a good cross-section representation of the Midwest as a whole.

Population density thins out substantially for the western portion of the Midwest, with population densities often mirroring those of the interior western US, a climate that is also semi-arid/steppe- a component not found in the majority of the Midwest as irrigation is not common for areas that get adequate rainfall throughout all portions of the growing season and all months of the year.

Population Totals:

52,461,850 as of July 2017- (Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin).
12,804,378 as of July 2017- (North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, and Missouri).

[SPonteKC]

Piling non-sequitur atop non-sequitur doesn’t really convince me that the place the phrase “middle west” was invented to describe isn’t really the Midwest. Again, it bears repeating that the Rust Belt cities of the Midwest (Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, Milwaukee, et al.), many of which, you might notice, are actually legitmately Great Lakes cities, have been and largely continue to be more profoundly influenced by a massive influx of southerners than anywhere else in the Midwest, you just ignore that because they are black and don’t fit your narrative.

An the idea that a single climate or farming practice would define an entire region (especially a region that was originally invented to describe the one you are trying to exclude) is laughable. Does “the South” have one climate? What about “the West”? Are there some places they grow one thing and some places they grow another? Doesn’t that mean Bakersfield isn’t the “real West” but Pocatello is? Wait, where is the population center of the West?

[Weaubleau]

The one thing that I see, and I don't think it is necessarily a Kansas City thing, is increasing acceptance and use of the word "y'all" by non southerners. I believe that is mostly from the influence of African American vernacular, rather than white southern influence. This galls me, as hearing the word "y'all" from a non old, non southern person is just "nails on a chalkboard" for me, similar to hearing the word "ain't" or "I seen". Other unfortunate "new" phrases include "Imma" for I am going to and "errbody" for everybody. Oh well, I guess the language evolves, but in these instances, not in a good way, in my opinion.

[Jay F]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

Exactly. I grew up in a truly Midwestern area, Northwest Indiana, and could easily feel the southern influences in Kansas City. Definitely not like the Great Lakes region, that’s for sure.

I was born in Milwaukee and when I visited KC as a teen I expected it to be somewhat similar...afterall it's the Midwest. Instead I got a total Southern vibe..which really surprised me.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Jay F

I was born in Milwaukee and when I visited KC as a teen I expected it to be somewhat similar...afterall it's the Midwest. Instead I got a total Southern vibe..which really surprised me.

Because there is some southern influences in KC but it's not heavy. Like I said, not a lot. Go just east of town or south of town and that transition zone begins.

[2000_Watts]

Originally Posted by Jay F

I was born in Milwaukee and when I visited KC as a teen I expected it to be somewhat similar...afterall it's the Midwest. Instead I got a total Southern vibe..which really surprised me.

So, in your opinion, what similarities do you notice between KC & places like Birmingham, Memphis, Atlanta, or Jackson...?

I can name far more between KC & Milwaukee than I can between KC and any of the other places I mentioned, which are in the actual south.

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by Jay F

I was born in Milwaukee and when I visited KC as a teen I expected it to be somewhat similar...afterall it's the Midwest. Instead I got a total Southern vibe..which really surprised me.

You probably just didn’t know what a Midwest vibe really is since you were from a place so heavily influenced by non-Midwesterners.