How "southern" is Kansas City? (St. Louis, Cleveland: living in, versus)

[James Bond 007]

Prior to moving here, the only person I had known from Missouri was this girl in high school who had moved to my town for a few years who was from St Louis, and she had a bit of a southern accent. Interestingly, her last name was Polish, which was interesting for me seeing someone with a Polish surname speaking with a southern accent.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by James Bond 007

Prior to moving here, the only person I had known from Missouri was this girl in high school who had moved to my town for a few years who was from St Louis, and she had a bit of a southern accent. Interestingly, her last name was Polish, which was interesting for me seeing someone with a Polish surname speaking with a southern accent.

Stl doesn't have a southern accent. Maybe her parents were from another area of the state.

South of stl you start to very gradually pick up the accent. According to the University of PA map, the southern dialect covers about 30 percent of Missouri. About 80-90 miles from St. Louis is the starting point of the southern dialect.

Also, was she from the actual St. Louis area, or another part of the metro but south of St. Louis where one might find a little twang in the very rural areas?

[Drunkenwolf]

I'm from St.Louis born & raised and i have a southern twang to my voice.. I get a lot of people who are surprised that i have a twang to my voice cause I'm from St.Louis.. I think a lot of people are underestimating the influence the south had on St.Louis and still does to this day... It doesn't have to visible by any means... St.Louis style BBQ isn't as popular as KC or Memphis style but its not far behind either.. Anyways Kansas City does not have a southern feel to it by any means it feels more western to me than even Midwest where as St.Louis feels more Midwest eastern & a bit southern... All around KC has a complete different feel from St.Louis that i can attest.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Drunkenwolf

I'm from St.Louis born & raised and i have a southern twang to my voice.. I get a lot of people who are surprised that i have a twang to my voice cause I'm from St.Louis.. I think a lot of people are underestimating the influence the south had on St.Louis and still does to this day... It doesn't have to visible by any means... St.Louis style BBQ isn't as popular as KC or Memphis style but its not far behind either.. Anyways Kansas City does not have a southern feel to it by any means it feels more western to me than even Midwest where as St.Louis feels more Midwest eastern & a bit southern... All around KC has a complete different feel from St.Louis that i can attest.

I'm from St. Louis, well I moved to FL in 2015. I agree there is still a tad of southern influence left over in St. Louis from many years ago, won't deny that BUT it's not nearly to the extent you put it though. Maybe 10 to 15 max. As I said it's still there but not much but a little. As I said it's hard to put your finger on it though.

Stl is a midwestern city though totally today. Lower Midwestern. There is some slight southern influences left but not enough to quite put it in the transition zone which starts just south of St. Louis.

St. Louis is a lower Midwest City that is just above the start of that transition zone. Slight traces left but just not enough to put it in the transition zone. It's lower Midwest. Not part of the south.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by cyrano

KC seems, if anything, more western than anything IMO, reflecting its history as a major terminus for cattle drives. The most obvious evidence (again to me) is the American Royal with its rodeo, livestock show, and horse show. And, notwithstanding a prior poster's argument of its similarity with Memphis, I'd say it's far closer to Texas BBQ-- brisket, sausage, and spicy sauce.

More evidence that Missouri may have more distinct geographic flavors to it than any other state...and people from other states, like "anyone living in the midwest north of I-80," the whole state looks more distinct from where they live (for Iowans, for instance, more southern). My Texas family thinks the entire state is northern and eastern.

Me, I appreciate the distinctiveness of the different areas of the state. It's really kind of where regional cultures meet and sometimes, well, clash.

Ribs. You forgot ribs.

And sausages don't play as prominent a role on the menus of Kansas City Q joints as they do those in the belt of German settlement that forms the heart of Texas Q country (it's the German origins of the practitioners that make Texas Q distinct from all other varieties IMO).

As for the rest of your post: I've been known to say that "Missouri is the nation in microcosm." Certainly we'd not be having an argument like this about any city in any other state, Baltimore possibly excepted.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

We are not denying the southern influences in the poll on here, just stating overall it's mostly midwestern but there are some southern influences in Kansas City, yes. I'd say it's about 15 percent in Jackson County area. Mainly midwestern but a little influence. It's when you get further west in the metro area like out in Lafayette you will notice the influences a lot more.

It's close but not quite close enough for the transition zone classification that should start just right below KC.

Go further south way down to Neosho Missouri which is about 150 miles south of Kansas City. You will be calling Kansas City midwestern when comparing it to there which is southern basically.

Missouri from about the MO river on south to close to highway 60 is just like southern Indiana is. More south you go the more influence. Around highway 60 and south of that in Missouri IS Dixie. Which even Brad Pitt has said Springfield is literally right on the dividing line.

Btw Blue Fox, do you travel to Southern Indiana a lot? How would you compare the southern influences in KC to southern IN? I'm not talking right on the Ohio River but a tad north of that. Because that part of IN is still in the transition zone a little bit. That might give you an idea of the level of southern influence you see in KC.

Frankly, i think I could replace "St. Louis" in your original post with "Kansas City" and change the highway numbers (swap I-49 for I-55) and it would still be pretty much true.

Where Missouri's two large cities differ more is on the degree of Eastern vs. Western influence. That's much sharper and more noticeable: St. Louis is clearly a city of the East while Kansas City is a Western one. What's changed about Kansas City since I left it for college and for good in 1976 is that everyone finally made peace with its cowtown past and accepted it as part of the city's history and cultural heritage much as Boss Tom Pendergast (who I maintain everything that makes Kansas City cool today can be traced to) is. That greater self-confidence hasn't completely gotten rid of the "smaller sibling" anxiety Kansas Citians have about St. Louis (the occasional gloating you see emanating from the opposite end of the state about population trends in the two central cities is a reflection of this), but it has made the city more fun as a place to visit.

I know you didn't mention this, but since I don't want to post a separate post about it: What's this "St. Louis-style BBQ" stuff? Is that really a thing?

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by Bluefox

Exactly. I grew up in a truly Midwestern area, Northwest Indiana, and could easily feel the southern influences in Kansas City. Definitely not like the Great Lakes region, that’s for sure.

What if I told you the Great Lakes region is not “truly midwestern” because it doesn’t have enough southern influence (which, of course would be conveniently ignoring almost the entirety of its black, urban population...) and is too northern to be considered truly “middle” western.

[aliasfinn]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Frankly, i think I could replace "St. Louis" in your original post with "Kansas City" and change the highway numbers (swap I-49 for I-55) and it would still be pretty much true.

Where Missouri's two large cities differ more is on the degree of Eastern vs. Western influence. That's much sharper and more noticeable: St. Louis is clearly a city of the East while Kansas City is a Western one. What's changed about Kansas City since I left it for college and for good in 1976 is that everyone finally made peace with its cowtown past and accepted it as part of the city's history and cultural heritage much as Boss Tom Pendergast (who I maintain everything that makes Kansas City cool today can be traced to) is. That greater self-confidence hasn't completely gotten rid of the "smaller sibling" anxiety Kansas Citians have about St. Louis (the occasional gloating you see emanating from the opposite end of the state about population trends in the two central cities is a reflection of this), but it has made the city more fun as a place to visit.

I know you didn't mention this, but since I don't want to post a separate post about it: What's this "St. Louis-style BBQ" stuff? Is that really a thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis-style_barbecue

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by aliasfinn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis-style_barbecue

From the article:

"These are usually grilled rather than slow-cooked over indirect heat with smoke which is typically associated with the term barbecue in the United States."

Thought so. It's not really barbecue, then, but rather an incredible simulation.

I think I've been to a few places where I was expecting actual Q and got St. Louis Q instead.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by SPonteKC

What if I told you the Great Lakes region is not “truly midwestern” because it doesn’t have enough southern influence (which, of course would be conveniently ignoring almost the entirety of its black, urban population...) and is too northern to be considered truly “middle” western.

The median center of population in the Midwest is ALWAYS in the Great Lakes region.