$500 million arts and entertainment project proposed near Kansas Speedway in Bonner Springs (Kansas City: cheap apartment, high crime)

[KC_Retiree]

Originally Posted by kcmo

When using so much in public incentives I just think at the very least a project like this should be in an infill location. It doesn't have to be urban, but try to use these rare chances to redevelop or stabilize existing areas that have existing infrastructure and existing neighborhoods. Most of what is near the speedway caters to the suburban crowd anyway, but I still think the stadium should have been put in a more interesting and accessible area. Maybe you would not go to a game, but there are plenty of people in the city that don't go to games because it's clear out in west wyco. A downtown KCK stadium would be a lot closer to much more of the metro population to (Liberty, Blue Springs, Lee's Summit etc).

Again, look at all the new MLS stadiums. Most are in urban locations and they draw very well. MLS draws from a younger more urban demographic in most cities. KC is probably missing out on that demographic and depending mostly on suburban families.

That's why I said the Indian Springs Mall area which could easily accommodate a project of this size. All these STAR bond projects in WyCo and JoCo are greenfield developments on the extreme edge of the developed metro area, often in areas where development should not need to be subsidized.

If you can can get all these incentive to develop farmland far from existing infrastructure and population, what is the incentive to redevelop areas like Indian Springs? There is SO MUCH OPEN LAND along I-70 east of Bonner Springs. Develop that first or redevelop distressed areas before building new in the middle of nowhere.

Agreed 100%. Not to mention the efficiency and sustainability of central locations.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by luzianne

WHO CARES if all the new MLS stadiums are in urban locations? Do we have to be like every other city? What people like about Kansas City is that it is NOT like every other city. It must really bother you that Sporting KC is in KCK. Deal with it.

The area around Indian Springs is not an ideal location. It is surrounded by blight and crime. I'd rather have it where it is. Why does it need to be along I-70? It's fine where it is. Kansas Speedway, T-Bones, Sporting KC and shopping and restaurants all in one place. The location is fine. You just don't like that it's not in Missouri.

The airport is in the middle of nowhere, too, and you don't mind that - because it's in Missouri.

Royals and Chiefs stadiums are way out, too. And not in a desirable area, if we want to be honest about it.

wow, salty lol.

No it bothers me that it's in the parking lot of a furniture store which itself in the middle of nowhere on the extreme edge of the city. I have said a million times the stadium should have been placed in a more central location in KCK. There are plenty of places in downtown KCK it could of gone.

How about right here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ka...!4d-94.5785667

On the KS side of the west bottoms where it could be part of the new HyVee Arena complex and share all the overbuilt parking in the area. The stadium could also be part of a major trail system on the KS River and it would really help the West Bottoms revitalize. Not to mention you would be in the heart of the KCK and KCMO Hispanic community. It would also be more central to the entire metro's suburban area and much more accessible to the younger urban demographic (which is the demographic that MLS caters too) that lives in urban KCMO.

What you said about the airport is just "plane" dumb. Not worth responding to.

Actually Arrowhead is good where it's at. It's an NFL stadium that is rarely used and needs lot of parking. It's at the junction of two major interstates in the middle of the most populated county in the metro. If KC didn't already have Arrowhead (which as become one of the most iconic stadiums in the NFL), then I would have little problems with a new stadium out by the speedway especially if the KS side paid for it. But why in the word would you walk away from the existing stadium and surrounding infrastructure and build all new stuff further out of town? What a waste. The surrounding area has zero impact on an NFL stadium, but massive football stadiums don't belong anywhere near a downtown area.

Royals stadium should be downtown.

And there is a reason projects like this are not proposed for Lee's Summit or anywhere else in the MO suburbs. They don't have STAR bonds.

All I'm saying is this "Arts" project should be an infill project. You must don't get out much if you don't think an area like Indian Springs can be transformed. There is a reason why KCK is one of the only older cities in the entire country that is not seeing massive urban re-investment and gentrification. The city of KCK and the state of Kansas ONLY CARE ABOUT SPRAWL and they heavily subsidize it making urban redevelopment nearly impossible there.

[luzianne]

Obviously you know nothing about it if you say it’s in the parking lot of a furniture store. It is not.

No I do not think the area around Indian Springs can be transformed. I have been aware of that area since the early 80s and lived just a little west of there for a time. It has only gotten worse.

Sporting KC is in a good location. The American Royal has even moved out there instead of downtown. I see nothing wrong with further development in the area. Your main concern is that it will detract from urban KCMO.

Have you seen how much parking is required for a Royals game? And that belongs downtown? I don’t think so.

[kcmo]

The new MLS stadium in StL is going to be awesome.



It's really too bad they are not as forward thinking as though KC is or they would have put it in Edwardsville, IL.

[thriftylefty]

You've got people who will drive from Lawrence to KCMO. They will certainly stop there. I can see it being a nice thing for people who want entertainment without the hassle of an urban environment. Being in the that part of the county has its advantages in bringing in large attractions with multiple semi's and multiple buses for a single act. The cost of real estate has to also be a factor in a project that big. Also tearing something down to put something up is costly.

[empires228]

Originally Posted by kcmo

wow, salty lol.

No it bothers me that it's in the parking lot of a furniture store which itself in the middle of nowhere on the extreme edge of the city. I have said a million times the stadium should have been placed in a more central location in KCK. There are plenty of places in downtown KCK it could of gone.

How about right here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ka...!4d-94.5785667

On the KS side of the west bottoms where it could be part of the new HyVee Arena complex and share all the overbuilt parking in the area. The stadium could also be part of a major trail system on the KS River and it would really help the West Bottoms revitalize. Not to mention you would be in the heart of the KCK and KCMO Hispanic community. It would also be more central to the entire metro's suburban area and much more accessible to the younger urban demographic (which is the demographic that MLS caters too) that lives in urban KCMO.

What you said about the airport is just "plane" dumb. Not worth responding to.

Actually Arrowhead is good where it's at. It's an NFL stadium that is rarely used and needs lot of parking. It's at the junction of two major interstates in the middle of the most populated county in the metro. If KC didn't already have Arrowhead (which as become one of the most iconic stadiums in the NFL), then I would have little problems with a new stadium out by the speedway especially if the KS side paid for it. But why in the word would you walk away from the existing stadium and surrounding infrastructure and build all new stuff further out of town? What a waste. The surrounding area has zero impact on an NFL stadium, but massive football stadiums don't belong anywhere near a downtown area.

Royals stadium should be downtown.

And there is a reason projects like this are not proposed for Lee's Summit or anywhere else in the MO suburbs. They don't have STAR bonds.

All I'm saying is this "Arts" project should be an infill project. You must don't get out much if you don't think an area like Indian Springs can be transformed. There is a reason why KCK is one of the only older cities in the entire country that is not seeing massive urban re-investment and gentrification. The city of KCK and the state of Kansas ONLY CARE ABOUT SPRAWL and they heavily subsidize it making urban redevelopment nearly impossible there.

That’s a bit ignorant of you to say considering all of the work that Wichita has put into fixing up the old town district and Delano. Topeka has also started investing in their downtown and downtown north Topeka, but Wichita has cleaned up their downtown quite a bit considering that they have run into several snags with a lot of the vacant lots and buildings being owned by a few people who just sit on them. It will be interesting to see how things continue to progress if they can actually get the new convention center and performing arts center built and if Amtrak returns to downtown.

KCK on the other hand is always going to have a hard time developing their old urban core without rail access to downtown KCMO because it’s in such a rough area. The worst part is that they only have access to one decent school, and the kids at Sumner have to suffer through rough schools K-8. It’s not as bad as KCMO or Hickman Mills, but it’s worse than Turner and Grandview. I have family members working in several metro area districts from affluent to pour so I have some idea of how the worst districts compare and I’d only rank KCK as the third worst in the metro. The Speedway area is attractive to developers for residential properties as it is zoned to two different districts that I would say are about as good as NKC and Blue Springs.

Also, isn’t the Indian Springs Mall site being re-developed into a grocery warehouse or something?

[rwiksell]

Eh, whatever. It's fine.

And hey, look on the bright side: If the Arts & Entertainment part of it fails, it can be quickly converted into a Menards.

[thriftylefty]

Wyandotte county has alway had problems with the Kansas City Kansas downtown. I remember conversations with movers and shakers years ago about the what was happening to the western edge of the county. Its proximity to Missouri has always been its cross to bear. IMO if KCK downtown begins to gentrify it will push out low income people who have nowhere to go. Sending Johnson Countians up North 435 instead of E 435 to spend their entertainment dollars might prove to be a smart move.

[Weaubleau]

Successful cities gentrify (sorry if that is a bad word in this day and age) their central city areas. Actually, REALLY successful cities never let their central city areas become slums, but you would have to have a time machine to correct that error in 95% of US cities.

Podunk and less desirable cities continue the ill advised development patterns that started 70 years ago and are now outdated. If KC really wants to pull together as one cohesive unit, it cannot continue to develop areas 30 miles away from its city center for entertainment and gathering places, whether they are in Kansas or Missouri. Sure, build exurban housing for those who don't want to live in a city center, but don't deliberately create attractions way out in the middle of nowhere. It's like having a party in your bedroom and leaving your living room and kitchen vacant with dirty dishes and trash strewn around. Wouldn't it be better to clean up your kitchen/living room and have the party there rather than make your guests schlep through your entire house and upstairs?

[rwiksell]

Originally Posted by Weaubleau

It's like having a party in your bedroom and leaving your living room and kitchen vacant with dirty dishes and trash strewn around. Wouldn't it be better to clean up your kitchen/living room and have the party there rather than make your guests schlep through your entire house and upstairs?

I feel like I've made this exact metaphor on this forum before. Great minds!