Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
They once called KC home office to the world or something like that. I think the highways in a around KC were planned for a much bigger city.
IIRC, the term was "branch office to the world."
By the time I was coming of age, TWA (under Howard Hughes' ownership) had moved its headquarters out of the city to New York. Most of the major employers not named Hallmark Cards (Sprint had yet to take its current form; it was still United Telephone System then) were regional or branch offices of companies headquartered elsewhere — including the Federal government; in the 1960s and 1970s, Kansas City was second only to Washington itself in terms of number of Federal Government employees in the metro.
(And every so often, someone proposes moving the national capital to KC even now.)
KC's highway network can handle more traffic than it carries, but the network wasn't designed for "a much bigger city."
Quote:
Originally Posted by westender
The siting of the current airport (and also the proposed airport, which construction just started), the sports complex, and the boom in JoCo all had an effect on the growth stall of KC in the 1970s. And I agree that it stalled, especially when contrasted with Atlanta. Atlanta also received a heavy-rail transit spine in those years. That has paid immense benefits recently.
Importantly, the huge uptick in crime and the collapse of the KCMO school district also played a central part in this story. In 1960, much of the middle class still lived in the city limits and there were several competitive high schools (Paseo, Southwest, Southeast). By 1980, Paseo's demolition was being planned, Southeast was not academically viable, and Southwest had a crime problem that drove the kids in its wealthy catchment to Catholic schools or across state line.
Businesses also moved out of downtown KC en-masse in this period -- the Plaza "bowl" grew several high rises which drew the law firms southward, plus the office complexes along Ward Parkway and the newly finished I-435 provided big floorplates that were rare downtown.
I believe that the sports complex and especially the airport were intentionally sited far from downtown to counteract the gravity that was pulling suburban growth southwesterly, but I think it was a mistake. Those amenities should have been kept downtown or near. The airport of course had its own engineering requirements, but even converting Richards Gebaur to the new KCI would have provided some eastward balance to the city. When downtown lost its airport, I think the die was cast.
(emphasis added)
I'll get to the part you bold-faced in a minute, but the reason KCI is where it is is because of the 1951 flood.
That disaster swamped Fairfax Municipal Airport, and had the levees not held, it would have done the same to Municipal Air Terminal on the Missouri side. Filghts were operating out of Grandview Airport, which got turned over to the U.S. Air Force in 1952 and thus beyond consideration for a new airport location.
TWA and the city wanted a new airport that was well away from any river and had ample room for expansion (both Fairfax and Municipal were, and are, hemmed in by their location in bends in the Missouri River). And by the 1960s, the impending arrival of jumbo jet airplanes made keeping Municipal as the city's principal airport impractical, for its one main runway was too short.
Mid-Continent International Airport, where TWA moved its maintenance base in 1952, had the land to accommodate jumbo-jet runways. And we also got those C-shaped drive-to-your-gate concourses at TWA's behest too. I've heard that once the airport opened (and metal detectors were installed right after it opened to deter airplane hijackings), TWA decided the design was unsatisfactory and asked the city for a do-over. "After we spent all that money on this?" came the reply. TWA moved its flight hub to Lambert-St; Louis International Airport in response.
Had those terminals simply been as deep as DFW's were, the airport might not be the nightmare it is now. (The same architectural firm designed both airports.)
Now, as for what happened after 1960: Some of that was fallout from the attempt to integrate the city's public schools. That fight was going on right as the city's old black district began to depopulate.
Kansas City now has a hollowed-out district comparable to that on St. Louis' north side.
Southwest High still enjoyed a decent reputation when I reached junior high school age in 1970, but a summer school teacher at Nelson recommended to my Mom that I deserved Pem-Day instead. But by then, school tax levies were going down to defeat repeatedly, largely on integration fears, I believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo
Strange indeed. Just the talk of moving the stadium downtown and the comments and temper tantrums people are throwing is just another example. Just like KCI, Kemper Arena etc. The people even get upset with the plaza changing and it seems like it has really slowed the evolution of the plaza district as it becomes less relevant.
Most of all, it just kind of embarrassing. Most people there sound like a bunch of country bumpkin rubes. Things like: "I went to a ball game in Cincinnati and it was horrible trying to figure out parking", or "I flew out of X airport and it was just so big and intimidating, I hope we never have such a place in KC".
I will always love KC (when I say KC, I pretty much ONLY mean the area of the city from the River Market to Waldo, as the rest of the metro leaves a lot to be desired. But I do not miss the culture there. The ultra conservative, never change, bring back the 1970's culture is just bizarre.
West of Troost or east of it too?
One poster here complained that the city had a Black mayor but its Black residents felt they were getting shortchanged. Quinton Lucas is actually Black Mayor Number Three, coming right on the heels of Number Two, but having a Black mayor is no guarantee that the East Side will get what ails it fixed, and the residents know it. Now, maybe you could say they cut their noses off to spite their faces; after all, one of the first streetcar expansion proposals called for a line to run out Linwood Boulevard before turning southward on Prospect, but the residents along that route didn't want to pay the extra taxes they would have had to pay to build it. But given what Prospect Avenue looks like now, I can see where the feeling of getting shortchanged comes from.
Mid-Continent International Airport, where TWA moved its maintenance base in 1952, had the land to accommodate jumbo-jet runways. And we also got those C-shaped drive-to-your-gate concourses at TWA's behest too. I've heard that once the airport opened (and metal detectors were installed right after it opened to deter airplane hijackings), TWA decided the design was unsatisfactory and asked the city for a do-over. "After we spent all that money on this?" came the reply. TWA moved its flight hub to Lambert-St; Louis International Airport in response.
Wow, that's interesting to hear about TWA's effect in KC. I had never heard about what they did over there. The costs "inflicted" by TWA were staggering here in StL also. After they arrived at Lambert, the airport essentially reached capacity. The StL area spent nearly $2 billion, in 90s money, to expand Lambert and build an entirely new airport (Mid America). Thousands of homes were taken. A freeway was rerouted and tunneled beneath the runways.
And then American bought TWA and moved out, resulting in empty terminals and unused runways. Some of the streets remain in the bulldozed neighborhoods. It's a sad sight.
By the time I was coming of age, TWA (under Howard Hughes' ownership) had moved its headquarters out of the city to New York. Most of the major employers not named Hallmark Cards (Sprint had yet to take its current form; it was still United Telephone System then) were regional or branch offices of companies headquartered elsewhere — including the Federal government; in the 1960s and 1970s, Kansas City was second only to Washington itself in terms of number of Federal Government employees in the metro.
(And every so often, someone proposes moving the national capital to KC even now.)
KC's highway network can handle more traffic than it carries, but the network wasn't designed for "a much bigger city."
(emphasis added)
I'll get to the part you bold-faced in a minute, but the reason KCI is where it is is because of the 1951 flood.
That disaster swamped Fairfax Municipal Airport, and had the levees not held, it would have done the same to Municipal Air Terminal on the Missouri side. Filghts were operating out of Grandview Airport, which got turned over to the U.S. Air Force in 1952 and thus beyond consideration for a new airport location.
TWA and the city wanted a new airport that was well away from any river and had ample room for expansion (both Fairfax and Municipal were, and are, hemmed in by their location in bends in the Missouri River). And by the 1960s, the impending arrival of jumbo jet airplanes made keeping Municipal as the city's principal airport impractical, for its one main runway was too short.
Mid-Continent International Airport, where TWA moved its maintenance base in 1952, had the land to accommodate jumbo-jet runways. And we also got those C-shaped drive-to-your-gate concourses at TWA's behest too. I've heard that once the airport opened (and metal detectors were installed right after it opened to deter airplane hijackings), TWA decided the design was unsatisfactory and asked the city for a do-over. "After we spent all that money on this?" came the reply. TWA moved its flight hub to Lambert-St; Louis International Airport in response.
Had those terminals simply been as deep as DFW's were, the airport might not be the nightmare it is now. (The same architectural firm designed both airports.)
Now, as for what happened after 1960: Some of that was fallout from the attempt to integrate the city's public schools. That fight was going on right as the city's old black district began to depopulate.
Kansas City now has a hollowed-out district comparable to that on St. Louis' north side.
Southwest High still enjoyed a decent reputation when I reached junior high school age in 1970, but a summer school teacher at Nelson recommended to my Mom that I deserved Pem-Day instead. But by then, school tax levies were going down to defeat repeatedly, largely on integration fears, I believe.
West of Troost or east of it too?
One poster here complained that the city had a Black mayor but its Black residents felt they were getting shortchanged. Quinton Lucas is actually Black Mayor Number Three, coming right on the heels of Number Two, but having a Black mayor is no guarantee that the East Side will get what ails it fixed, and the residents know it. Now, maybe you could say they cut their noses off to spite their faces; after all, one of the first streetcar expansion proposals called for a line to run out Linwood Boulevard before turning southward on Prospect, but the residents along that route didn't want to pay the extra taxes they would have had to pay to build it. But given what Prospect Avenue looks like now, I can see where the feeling of getting shortchanged comes from.
As the Missouri Highway Department was building the freeway system in the 1960s, Kansas City was the 8th largest city in the United States in land area.
As the Missouri Highway Department was building the freeway system in the 1960s, Kansas City was the 8th largest city in the United States in land area.
How much bigger did you want?
Its probably only in the top 25 now. It had doubled between 1940 -1960. Perhaps they thought it had more growing to do.
Last edited by thriftylefty; 07-01-2020 at 05:32 AM..
Sadly, now, as a current resident of KCMO, I am not the only one who sees Kansas City Mo on track to become another Detroit, MI. Democrats have rotted the substructure of what could be a good city. City Hall is full of corrupt partisan politiicians enriching themselves. And in Kansas City, MO, my MOST EXPENSIVE UTILITY is water and its only going to go up.
Kansas City, MO is in one way frozen in time with its fair share of race problems but now in 2020 racial division has been amped up on steroids. And its all totally unnecessary but bad government has done nothing to bring us together and possibly even encourages it. We've had a black mayor for a decade or so most recently, a black police chief and a black sheriff but for some reason there seems to be a belief in the black community that they are being targeted by law enforcement which makes zero sense to me. This summer of 2020 the homicide rate, mostly black on black is breaking previous records and shows no sign of slowing down and the victims are too often little children.
You are so right in what you say! KC, Paris of the Plains in the 1920's is more like an up an coming Detroit of the 21st century.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
