11-15-2009, 01:36 PM
Location: Washington, DC area
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Maybe Samantha is right. KS schools might be better than MO schools...
My kids have been in school for two weeks and the difference in education in Maryland vs Missouri seems like night and day.
I'm starting to think that MO schools only teach to the map test to make the schools "appear" good, mostly to bring up the urban KC and StL schools. What happens is in order for many of MO's urban and some rural schools to even be accredited, the suburban schools ace everything.
My kids were in all the advanced classes in MO and still aced every class and rarely had homework.
The schools out here tell us that something is wrong if your kids are in advanced classes and they still get all A's with little effort. They say kids should have to work very hard for a B.
I'm starting to find out why. In just the first week, it appears the schools out here are at least 1-2 years ahead of comparable schools in MO.
I'm in a state of shock right now and am so glad to have figured this out. Out here, my kids will be ready for college and an east coast college at that. Not so sure in MO, even if they had taken all the advanced courses. I think they would have done fine, but I'm quite impressed at how advanced and how well managed the schools in MD are, especially concerning that they have so many more issues to deal with such as many more nationalities, languages, cultures etc.
I honestly don’t know what to think now of MO schools. Are KS schools better or do they also have somewhat diluted and exaggerated ratings? Is this again a Midwest vs. East Coast thing? Serious question.
One thing that needs to happen in MO is they need to do what is done in MD. The STATE needs to be much more involved, if not run the show. Here in MD, the state runs the show, sets very high standards and makes sure all the districts attempt to reach those standards. In MO, the state takes a very passive stance and basically the districts teach kids to do well on the map test and that’s it. We have many teachers in my family in MO and they all totally agree with me on how the districts don’t teach the kids, but teach them to do well on map.
Anyway, I would be curious to know if anybody has any way of comparing this to KS side schools. I really hope it’s not as bad as it appears, but right now, I’m quite disappointed in basic MO education, but then again, MD schools are said to be the best schools in the nation and so the bar is set high. They must have figured that out by some other way then asking how they do on whatever standard test the states come up with such as college entry exams etc.
11-15-2009, 02:03 PM
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I once came across someone in the Arkansas forum who had lived in Maryland before moving to AR, and they pretty much claimed that Little Rock schools were better than the 'top rated' school their child was in back east in Maryland. Arkansas is known for a lot of things, but education isn't one of them, so who knows.
Then, I read a post in the Kansas forums in which someone had moved from Blue Valley or Shawnee Mission to Liberty, MO, and were much more impressed with Liberty than those JoCo schools.
Some claim Blue Springs schools are great, but I've personally heard mixed reviews.
Getting a good read on where the best schools are seems pretty much impossible.
Are Kansas schools good? Of course they are. For me personally, good schools is probably #3 or #4 on my list of things to look at when choosing a place to live.
Education is a priority for me, but I personally have different ideas as to the best way to attain it.
11-15-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kcmo
Maybe Samantha is right.
Okay,
who are you? and what have you done with kcmo???
Quote:
My kids have been in school for two weeks and the difference in education in Maryland vs Missouri seems like night and day.
As I have said before, we moved
within JoCo. And I thought our schools before were good. We moved to upgrade their HS opportunities. I didn't expect much difference at the Elem or MS levels. I was
immediately impressed as I looked into SM and BV and continue to be pleasantly surprised as the year goes on.
I think Kansas may have a tighter grip, but I doubt it's by much. I think the local districts still have more to say overall than the state does. I can see pros and cons to this.
But in SM and BV, you have a high percentage of higher educated parents. These parents have high expectations and demands and they add additional funding via PTO's to get it.
I think this a main driving factor in what allows these two districts to excel as they do.
You mentioned "setting the bar higher". This is something I noticed immediately. My kids struggled a little getting started. They were behind! Not just academically, but in terms of responsibility - just how much was expected of them. Their spoon-fed days are over!
I like it! I think it's great! My kids are having to haul a little more a** than they are used to, but hey!
There may very well be schools on the MO side that are similar in this regard. And there is
always room for improvement (BV and SM aren't perfect and they have their challenges.) But in all honestly, I really do think these two districts offer the best public education that this region has to offer.
11-15-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
kcmo
...The STATE needs to be much more involved, if not run the show...
I would say the PARENTS need to be much more involved.
The State's responsibility is to define a curriculum which will enable students to compete after high school, whether that may be that entering a vocational school, the job market, or an 'east coast' university.
(FWIW, Harvard has some of the worst grade inflation among all universities.)
11-15-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cp1969
I would say the PARENTS need to be much more involved.
That's why private schools usually outperform public schools. Private schools operate on a shoe-string budget in comparison, with fewer 'programs' to help kids do better.
If you're paying tuition, you're going to get involved in most cases.
11-15-2009, 04:27 PM
Location: Middle America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cp1969
I would say the PARENTS need to be much more involved.
Bingo.
11-15-2009, 05:21 PM
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Agreed as well. This is what I'm saying with respect to SM and BV. There is an incredible amount of parental involvement and additional parental funding. Almost to a fault (because this can be a challenge if taken to an extreme.)
11-15-2009, 06:40 PM
Location: The City of St. Louis
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Didn't realize this was double posted....here is my reply on the same thread in the general MO forum:
In Missouri, the districts have to teach the MAP test in order to keep their school's accreditation. This is not a problem with a lack of involvement by the state government, but the over involvement of the federal government due to the No Child Left Behind act (NCLB). The NCLB sets the simply unattainable goal that all test scores must continue to improve year-by-year for each grade. For example, the 2010 eight-grade MAP scores on science must be higher than those of 2009. Additionally, NCLB requires that all students must be proficient in reading and mathematics by 2014.
These all sound like great and idealistic goals, but they simply don't work. Not all students are created equal, and students who have learning disabilities, a lack of family support, or simply aren't that bright will likely never achieve proficiency in mathematics and reading, no matter the quality of the education. As a result, many schools are forced to simply "teach the test" so the scores will continue to rise and the school will not be at risk for "corrective actions" by the state and federal government. This also hampers the education of gifted students, who will be taught the same watered-down material as their lower performing peers.
The federal government needs to stay the heck out of education and leave it to the states.
Additionally, in areas filled with white collar professionals who value education and set high standards of achievement for their children (such as the MD suburbs of DC like Silver Spring, Rockville, etc), you will simply get higher performing and more driven students than in other areas, and the schools will cater more to these students. If you children were attending the public schools in say District Heights or the city of Baltimore, you'd likely have a completely different experience.
FWIW, I'm a product of a small, rural Missouri public school in a low-income area of the Ozarks. I went on to earn both undergraduate and graduate degrees in engineering, the latter from the third-ranked nationally university in my field (not in MO), where I was one of the top students in my program. I don't say this to toot my own horn, but to illustrate that even coming from a relatively underfunded rural school, I was still able to become just as successful as my peers who attended "higher quality" public and private schools in suburban areas in other states. That little country school I attended has also sent kids to Cornell, GWU, USC, and WashU. Not too shabby, IMO.
11-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Location: southern california
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dear OP
your concerns are not imagined.
good post. dumbing down is worse than swine flu.
11-15-2009, 09:59 PM
Location: Middle America
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
OA 5599
FWIW, I'm a product of a small, rural Missouri public school in a low-income area of the Ozarks. I went on to earn both undergraduate and graduate degrees in engineering, the latter from the third-ranked nationally university in my field (not in MO), where I was one of the top students in my program. I don't say this to toot my own horn, but to illustrate that even coming from a relatively underfunded rural school, I was still able to become just as successful as my peers who attended "higher quality" public and private schools in suburban areas in other states. That little country school I attended has also sent kids to Cornell, GWU, USC, and WashU. Not too shabby, IMO.
I agree with this, as well, and can relate in experience...although my particular small, rural, public, low-income district wasn't in Missouri, but in an agrarian belt of a neighboring state.
When I got to my particular college (a selective admission private institution), I attended with a majority of students from predominantly wealthy suburban districts and private prep schools. I more than held my own. Not tooting my own horn, either. Definitely not tooting the horn of those who educated me K-12, either, because they were on average, mediocre educators at best.
TOTALLY tooting my parents' horns. They are both amazing parents and educators, and instilled and encouraged in me and my siblings a respect for learning under one's own steam, and an innate intellectual curiosity, so we weren't at the mercy of sometimes truly subpar educators for our learning...they taught us that WE were responsible for our own learning. And that foundation has FAR more to do with my achievements in school and life than the collection of mostly mediocre educators that a broke, rural district could attract.
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Housing units in structures - 50 or more (%)
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Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
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Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)