Missouri public schools. Are kids really getting the education people think they are? (Blue Springs: appointed, 2014)

[kcmo]

Maybe Samantha is right. KS schools might be better than MO schools...

My kids have been in school for two weeks and the difference in education in Maryland vs Missouri seems like night and day.

I'm starting to think that MO schools only teach to the map test to make the schools "appear" good, mostly to bring up the urban KC and StL schools. What happens is in order for many of MO's urban and some rural schools to even be accredited, the suburban schools ace everything.

My kids were in all the advanced classes in MO and still aced every class and rarely had homework.

The schools out here tell us that something is wrong if your kids are in advanced classes and they still get all A's with little effort. They say kids should have to work very hard for a B.

I'm starting to find out why. In just the first week, it appears the schools out here are at least 1-2 years ahead of comparable schools in MO.

I'm in a state of shock right now and am so glad to have figured this out. Out here, my kids will be ready for college and an east coast college at that. Not so sure in MO, even if they had taken all the advanced courses. I think they would have done fine, but I'm quite impressed at how advanced and how well managed the schools in MD are, especially concerning that they have so many more issues to deal with such as many more nationalities, languages, cultures etc.

I honestly don’t know what to think now of MO schools. Are KS schools better or do they also have somewhat diluted and exaggerated ratings? Is this again a Midwest vs. East Coast thing? Serious question.

One thing that needs to happen in MO is they need to do what is done in MD. The STATE needs to be much more involved, if not run the show. Here in MD, the state runs the show, sets very high standards and makes sure all the districts attempt to reach those standards. In MO, the state takes a very passive stance and basically the districts teach kids to do well on the map test and that’s it. We have many teachers in my family in MO and they all totally agree with me on how the districts don’t teach the kids, but teach them to do well on map.

Anyway, I would be curious to know if anybody has any way of comparing this to KS side schools. I really hope it’s not as bad as it appears, but right now, I’m quite disappointed in basic MO education, but then again, MD schools are said to be the best schools in the nation and so the bar is set high. They must have figured that out by some other way then asking how they do on whatever standard test the states come up with such as college entry exams etc.

[northbound74]

I once came across someone in the Arkansas forum who had lived in Maryland before moving to AR, and they pretty much claimed that Little Rock schools were better than the 'top rated' school their child was in back east in Maryland. Arkansas is known for a lot of things, but education isn't one of them, so who knows.
Then, I read a post in the Kansas forums in which someone had moved from Blue Valley or Shawnee Mission to Liberty, MO, and were much more impressed with Liberty than those JoCo schools.
Some claim Blue Springs schools are great, but I've personally heard mixed reviews.
Getting a good read on where the best schools are seems pretty much impossible.

Are Kansas schools good? Of course they are. For me personally, good schools is probably #3 or #4 on my list of things to look at when choosing a place to live.
Education is a priority for me, but I personally have different ideas as to the best way to attain it.

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Maybe Samantha is right.

Okay, who are you? and what have you done with kcmo???

My kids have been in school for two weeks and the difference in education in Maryland vs Missouri seems like night and day.

As I have said before, we moved within JoCo. And I thought our schools before were good. We moved to upgrade their HS opportunities. I didn't expect much difference at the Elem or MS levels. I was immediately impressed as I looked into SM and BV and continue to be pleasantly surprised as the year goes on.

I think Kansas may have a tighter grip, but I doubt it's by much. I think the local districts still have more to say overall than the state does. I can see pros and cons to this.

But in SM and BV, you have a high percentage of higher educated parents. These parents have high expectations and demands and they add additional funding via PTO's to get it.

I think this a main driving factor in what allows these two districts to excel as they do.

You mentioned "setting the bar higher". This is something I noticed immediately. My kids struggled a little getting started. They were behind! Not just academically, but in terms of responsibility - just how much was expected of them. Their spoon-fed days are over!

I like it! I think it's great! My kids are having to haul a little more a** than they are used to, but hey!

There may very well be schools on the MO side that are similar in this regard. And there is always room for improvement (BV and SM aren't perfect and they have their challenges.) But in all honestly, I really do think these two districts offer the best public education that this region has to offer.

[cp1969]

Originally Posted by kcmo

...The STATE needs to be much more involved, if not run the show...

I would say the PARENTS need to be much more involved.

The State's responsibility is to define a curriculum which will enable students to compete after high school, whether that may be that entering a vocational school, the job market, or an 'east coast' university.

(FWIW, Harvard has some of the worst grade inflation among all universities.)

[northbound74]

Originally Posted by cp1969

I would say the PARENTS need to be much more involved.

That's why private schools usually outperform public schools. Private schools operate on a shoe-string budget in comparison, with fewer 'programs' to help kids do better.
If you're paying tuition, you're going to get involved in most cases.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by cp1969

I would say the PARENTS need to be much more involved.

Bingo.

[Samantha S]

Agreed as well. This is what I'm saying with respect to SM and BV. There is an incredible amount of parental involvement and additional parental funding. Almost to a fault (because this can be a challenge if taken to an extreme.)

[OA 5599]

Didn't realize this was double posted....here is my reply on the same thread in the general MO forum:

In Missouri, the districts have to teach the MAP test in order to keep their school's accreditation. This is not a problem with a lack of involvement by the state government, but the over involvement of the federal government due to the No Child Left Behind act (NCLB). The NCLB sets the simply unattainable goal that all test scores must continue to improve year-by-year for each grade. For example, the 2010 eight-grade MAP scores on science must be higher than those of 2009. Additionally, NCLB requires that all students must be proficient in reading and mathematics by 2014.

These all sound like great and idealistic goals, but they simply don't work. Not all students are created equal, and students who have learning disabilities, a lack of family support, or simply aren't that bright will likely never achieve proficiency in mathematics and reading, no matter the quality of the education. As a result, many schools are forced to simply "teach the test" so the scores will continue to rise and the school will not be at risk for "corrective actions" by the state and federal government. This also hampers the education of gifted students, who will be taught the same watered-down material as their lower performing peers.

The federal government needs to stay the heck out of education and leave it to the states.

Additionally, in areas filled with white collar professionals who value education and set high standards of achievement for their children (such as the MD suburbs of DC like Silver Spring, Rockville, etc), you will simply get higher performing and more driven students than in other areas, and the schools will cater more to these students. If you children were attending the public schools in say District Heights or the city of Baltimore, you'd likely have a completely different experience.

FWIW, I'm a product of a small, rural Missouri public school in a low-income area of the Ozarks. I went on to earn both undergraduate and graduate degrees in engineering, the latter from the third-ranked nationally university in my field (not in MO), where I was one of the top students in my program. I don't say this to toot my own horn, but to illustrate that even coming from a relatively underfunded rural school, I was still able to become just as successful as my peers who attended "higher quality" public and private schools in suburban areas in other states. That little country school I attended has also sent kids to Cornell, GWU, USC, and WashU. Not too shabby, IMO.

[Huckleberry3911948]

dear OP
your concerns are not imagined.
good post. dumbing down is worse than swine flu.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by OA 5599

FWIW, I'm a product of a small, rural Missouri public school in a low-income area of the Ozarks. I went on to earn both undergraduate and graduate degrees in engineering, the latter from the third-ranked nationally university in my field (not in MO), where I was one of the top students in my program. I don't say this to toot my own horn, but to illustrate that even coming from a relatively underfunded rural school, I was still able to become just as successful as my peers who attended "higher quality" public and private schools in suburban areas in other states. That little country school I attended has also sent kids to Cornell, GWU, USC, and WashU. Not too shabby, IMO.

I agree with this, as well, and can relate in experience...although my particular small, rural, public, low-income district wasn't in Missouri, but in an agrarian belt of a neighboring state.

When I got to my particular college (a selective admission private institution), I attended with a majority of students from predominantly wealthy suburban districts and private prep schools. I more than held my own. Not tooting my own horn, either. Definitely not tooting the horn of those who educated me K-12, either, because they were on average, mediocre educators at best. TOTALLY tooting my parents' horns. They are both amazing parents and educators, and instilled and encouraged in me and my siblings a respect for learning under one's own steam, and an innate intellectual curiosity, so we weren't at the mercy of sometimes truly subpar educators for our learning...they taught us that WE were responsible for our own learning. And that foundation has FAR more to do with my achievements in school and life than the collection of mostly mediocre educators that a broke, rural district could attract.