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I haven't read all the replys so what I tell ya just may be redundant! You will hardly know the packing houses are there. Even if you drive by them you are not likely to see cattle. The slaughtering is done inside the facility. There is no smell to a packing house. The "smell of money" will come from the feedyard, where the cattle are fattened for slaughter. You'll also get an overpowering smell of dog food from the rendering plant when the wind is right.
The packing house is in South Dodge. If you stay north of the highway you will never even see one. Wal-mart, the Mall, etc are all north of the highway. The best areas of Dodge to live in for you will probably be in the north area by the hospital. There are many homes and quite a few apartments around the hospital and along the north bypass.
Five Horses, do you mean that I'm getting more than I bargained for by moving to Dodge City, or more information about the slaughtering process than I bargained for when I posted the question? I'll admit that I feel (correctly or not) that I've gotten about as many details about the butchering as I can take in right now. But as far as Dodge City and/or the region as a whole - I'm extremely fortunate in that I love what I do for a living so much that I would probably do it for free. And I have colleagues who feel the same way, but have been forced into other fields, if they are lucky enough to have a job at all. And it's a job that teaches one lesson over and over - and that's that there is no place that's not interesting, filled with thousands of important stories to tell about the lives of the people who live there. I know this sounds really corny, but I always feel honored to be able to tell some of those stories, although I rarely do them justice. That's why I can't wait to get to Dodge City - I've never been there, or lived anywhere like it, but I already know how interesting the people are. Also, there is something so beautiful about the Great Plains. The horizon is so vast, that I wonder if people who grow up looking at that sky feel trapped or cramped when they leave it.
That brings me to my next question, if you guys aren't tired of me yet: how do you think the land itself, the actual, physical land, has shaped the culture? Has it shaped your sense of yourselves and the way you look at the world? Or have modern communication technology and the ease of rapid transportation erased any significant differences between the culture of the Great Plains and the rest of the country?
Thanks so much to Todd00, weathergal, and chele123 - the practical advice you provided is really helpful. I gave up trying to rent a place from here, and will stay in a motel for (I hope) just a week or two. Thanks to this forum, I now know to look at the north side of town. I'm an enormous fan of real neighborhoods, but will probably choose a fourplex or duplex on the edges of town IF that's the only affordable way to be safe. Otherwise, I love old houses in old neighborhoods, with a variety of generations and some diversity. But I'm no longer a kid, so it's no longer an adventure for me to move into the hood, as I never hesitated to do throughout my prolonged and misspent youth. Now, I want peace and quiet - I don't like parties next door, I haven't played the drums in years, and I don't drink. I go to bed early and would rather work in my yard than go out on the town. I'm sure I'll find something. I hope!
I have never thought of it before ,but I guess the geographic are does affect us in way that we are not aware of. When I was in college in a small town in Kansas I lived in a farm house on 100 acres of land complete with a pond full of fish and a stream, meadow and a grove perfect for camping and picknicks. This is not that rare of an experince, many college students look for these farm houses.
People are a little more tolerant and trusting than you would think in open spaces because if they don't want to be around people they don't have to. When I got my car stuck in the mud in my driveway one of my closest neighboors from 5-10 mile away pulled me out . this was our only contact in about 5 years. It seemed funny because my brother who lives in Kansas City Kansas was in a long angry dispute with his next door neighboor over 27 inches of their shared property line. when I was renting a house on 100 acres from a farmer who never saw me before for $100.00 a month.
That brings me to my next question, if you guys aren't tired of me yet: how do you think the land itself, the actual, physical land, has shaped the culture? Has it shaped your sense of yourselves and the way you look at the world? Or have modern communication technology and the ease of rapid transportation erased any significant differences between the culture of the Great Plains and the rest of the country?
I think it really depends on the area with which one identifies oneself. For example, the physical land is quite a bit less significant if you live in the middle of KCK or Wichita. But for those who do not identify as purely urban, I think there is a solidity to the ground under your feet in Kansas (even when there is muuuuud). In my family's part (Flint Hills, well east and slightly north of Dodge), it is pasture and cattle country, and there are a lot of limestone fenceposts and buildings. There is a different feel to stone. It conveys a certain general solidity about Kansans, not universal but pronounced. One must remember that these are not people who leave town when a tornado comes. They take shelter, but typically in their own basements or somewhere nearby. They tend to have basements. I think there is a greater connection with the earth than some places.
Modern infrastructure has somewhat edited this, but perhaps the tendency to ask how it has affected Kansans is missing a key point. One key impact of freeways and flight is that people crossing the country, who used to have to see more of Kansas, no longer do. When they fly over it, they are not really even sure whether they are over Nebraska or Kansas, and when they must drive its full breadth, they typically do so at 75 mph at night and rarely stop for any reason; for them Kansas is an ordeal, like seven hours of sensory dep.
So while technology has enabled Kansans to talk to the world better, it has enabled non-Kansans to avoid Kansas, thus they never really get a feel for it. That in turn, I think, leads to a sense of being greatly misunderstood and not respected by the coasts and big cities, which in turn (in my view) is what has taken Kansas to new levels of red-stateness and become part of its identity. They are voting for the people who (like most Kansans) like beef and Jesus and guns, against the vegans who are agnostic about Jesus and want gun control. As any person with an IQ above 80 is well aware, the reality is not that simple, but a lot of Americans' minds are quite simple and that's how they make them up.
I can easily summarize it for you: 'flyover state'. Implication: Kansas is a place one avoids through air travel, to get from one place that matters to another place that matters without having to pass through a place that does not matter. So while the natural reply of outsiders might be to sneer at Kansans' way of dealing with this, perhaps those outsiders are not personally acquainted with how it feels when richer people tell you: you don't matter.
I wrote a review of a book that addresses this, which I'll link you to if you'd like to DM me. As a child of Kansan parents living far from home since my youth, I've often asked myself why my ties to the state remain so strong even though quite frankly I have little in common with my family and for the most part don't get along with them worth a damn. I've lived in Washington since just before Nixon resigned, so why in the world do I have a sunflower tattooed on my shoulder? I guess because I've never felt at home here. I've always felt like a visitor. But when in Kansas, I feel at home, even though of the beef/Jesus/guns triad I like the first, don't believe in the second's divinity, and own the third but regularly heap scorn on its nut wing. I am so utterly out of step with mainstream Kansan political and religious and nationalistic thought that the logical conclusion would be that I'm now officially a Washingtonian. But yet, while I don't agree with the majority in Kansas, I like them. I might think some of their views are ridiculous, but when outsiders' scoffs cut them, I bleed too, and I take their side. The rest of the nation is fond of gaping in shock at some Kansans' understanding of the world, but what the rest of the nation doesn't realize is that it understands Kansas every bit as poorly. And because Kansas to a degree symbolizes what happens in much of the Great Plains, that's a dangerously large number of people to misunderstand.
PrairyErth (William Least Heat-Moon). You would never know he's from Missouri. He not only writes well, he wears shoes and can zip his pants up. Very nice man, personable in person, and twice the writer I will ever be.
What's the Matter with Kansas (Thomas Frank). A lot of Kansans didn't like hearing it, and JoCo inevitably comes up, but he has some points. I saw where he was coming from.
In Cold Blood (Truman Capote). Holcomb's not too far west of Dodge. It should be remembered that Kansas was one of the last states to abandon hanging (Washington is now the only one that still has it as an option; the gallows is about 50 miles from my front porch).
The Four Seasons of Kansas (Daniel Dancer). Coffee table book. It will show you the Kansas Kansans see, which is not visible from I-70 or from passenger jets. Once you see the pictures you will start to notice this Kansas as well.
Jennison's Jayhawkers (Stephen Starr). Well done story of one of the most notorious cavalry regiments of the war. By the time the rest of the nation got around to having a civil war, we had been at it with Missouri off and on four seven years--in a war that was quite arguably over the soul of what Kansas would be.
[quote=j_k_k;7955695]Someone should recommend good books. I'll start:
What's the Matter with Kansas (Thomas Frank). A lot of Kansans didn't like hearing it, and JoCo inevitably comes up, but he has some points. I saw where he was coming from.
In Cold Blood (Truman Capote). Holcomb's not too far west of Dodge. It should be remembered that Kansas was one of the last states to abandon hanging (Washington is now the only one that still has it as an option; the gallows is about 50 miles from my front porch).
I agree with J_K_K about these books. Both are interesting--What's the Matter from a political perspective and In Cold Blood from both an historical and (especially if you live in SW Kansas) a local perspective.
Laidoff, you'll have to let us know what happens with your move--how you like your new job, boss, co-workers, house, and the area. As for me, I told the tiny Oregon town no, but I do have a couple of new interviews set up (in Pratt and in Liberal--both in SW Kansas), so I'll see what the future will bring.
Regarding the culture of KS, Hays has a very large population of second and third generation families of direct German descent. That area can be cliquish, however. Ft. Hays State University is up there and they used to have a lot of fairs and festivals in the warmer weather. That is a good time to talk to the locals, because they are expecting and excited about out of towners coming in to see their town. The older full blooded Germans are fascinating to talk to. There were complicated reasons for their migration to the U.S. but many of them wanted to live in a community with family and freinds from Germany. Much like the inhabitants of ethic communities in larger cities. There are authentic German cookbooks put together by various community organizations and they often sell baked goods at these fairs. Some of the pastries and breads are so incredibly good and very unique; I have not tasted anything like them anywhere else. Also, Ft. Hays museam is a very interesting place to visit and full of cultural history reflecting all of western KS. It would be well worth it for you to take a few trips up to Hays during the warmer seasons.
There is a website called "Haunted Kansas" and it lists the foklore for several towns in KS. It tells the story of the haunting and how it originated and follow up sightings, etc over the years. Ft. Hays is on the list and I believe someplace in Dodge made the list too.
Dodge City used to have a restored historic Front Street. I don't know if it is still a tourist attraction today or not, but it was really worth seeing; as was the boot hill cemetary, if you like history. Dodge was the real wild west.
The culture of KS in the early years also included the oil industry. A person used to see oil wells being pumped by mechanical pumps across much of the plains. A lot of this oil went to Bartlesville, Oklahoma, which is not too much of a drive from Dodge. Frank Phillips started the Phillips petroleum company there. A trip to Bartlesville would be well worth your time especially if you go during June/July when they have the OK Mozart Festival.
Bartlesville is close to the state line and as I said the history and culture are intertwined with KS due to the oil industry and the landscape of the west. Frank Phillps' ranch was converted into a museam called Woolarac. It holds one largest collection of Indian artifacts and western memorabilia in the area. It takes two days to see it all.
Frank Lloyd Wright, the architect, built an office building there and it is converted now to a first rate hotel and art museam. It is called Price Tower. There are also peices of Mr. Wight's furniture that he designed for the office in the art museam section of the building.
The OK Mozart Festival draws people from all across the country and even overseas. It began due to Phillps' petroleum being there. It is a five day classical music festival with well known muscians from NYC and Boston. You can hear chamber music up close and there is a huge orchestra that puts on an outdoor concert as well as an indoor finale at a beautiful ametheatre that is in the town. When I went to it, one of the slated activities was a tour of the Phillips company, and it was fascinating. It incuded a trip to the original boardroom where the original chairs and painted portrates of the first board of directors, including Frank Phillips, were located.
I forgot to mention the Cathedral of the Plains. I cant remember what town it is in, but it is out west and it is really worth seeing whether you are religious or not. The architecture is astounding.
In the eastern part of the state, Leavenworth has quite a bit of history, but the flavor isn't nearly as western as the other areas I have mentioned. Visiting all of those would give you a better understanding of how the culture of western KS developed.
Truman Capote's book is a good one, but it is sad too. That was a good example of how trusting and good natured people can be in the west. Speaking of the Clutter family that was killed of course.
Topeka also has a good museam at the state capitol and there is a famous huge wall mural of John Brown the abolishionist from the Civil War era. It would be worth the trip just to see that. KS played an interesting role in the Civil War and you can learn about it there. Also, in the eastern part of the state there is the town of Osawatomie where the state hospital is located. I was up there not too long ago. They have renovated one of the orginial buildings and it is a museam. You can see artifacts from early insane asylems. The state hospital up there was built after the Civil War as a reward to the people of the town for their role in the war.
In addition to these activities, there is a Community College in Dodge and they may have a course in KS history. I took the course at another college when I was in school and I loved it. It would be one of those evening classes with lots of adults taking it for fun. That would be a good way to meet people in Dodge also.
Wow. There's a lot to think about. Kansas is really complicated! But so's everywhere else, I guess-just in different ways. I'm going to check out the books. Thank-you so much.
j-k-k, your posts are an unusually powerful blend of tough (and broad) political sophistication, empathy, wit, irreverence, crabbiness, compassion and ...well, let's just say there's something poignant about them. I read your review, as well. You can really write, son! Plus, you know your baseball.
I think I've seen much of what you describe ( as you yourself pointed out) in other regions, places like westernmost North Carolina, southernmost Illinois, also known as Little Egypt, where-Cairo is pronounce Kay-ro, and why not? - and southern Missouri. There's an almost palpable feeling in the air of a place whose people know themselves to be essentially invisible to the rest of the country (well, for southern Illinois, which is really the upland south, it's more like despised by the rest of the state - and boy, do they hate Chicago!) represented instead by caricatures that serve to justify their disenfranchisement. And often, the local economy is centered on the most contemptous and false of those crude stereotypes. For example, the Ozarks are filled with "Hillbilly Heavens" and "Paw's Good Eatins", painted signs everywhere of outhouses, possum hunts, and bearded, barefoot men in wide-brimmed floppy hats, smoking corncob pipes and drinking moonshine. It's really the final insult, when the only way to survive is to market your own stupidity. But there's also something cool about it, for any outsider who is paying attention - because, of course, nobody there believes in that nonsense, so the entire time, and in a very dry and subtle way, they are laughing at the tourists who are buying into it. It's a cynical economic exchange, to be sure, but that sharp humor, often expressed in a single sentence, and accompanied by a slight gesture or twitch of the mouth, saves it from being just that. Especially because the tourists are invariably oblivious of the fact of the insult.
I grew to love the cadence and variety of their speech, and I miss it still. Yet, that speech is virtually synonymous with stupidity, and not just in this country - it's an image that's been exported around the world. It's a commodity, in fact. And I've seen those people stiffen and turn their gaze from the sheer force of its power to harm them. No one's that tough.
I knew this, but I didn't know that similiar (although it seems to me significantly less virulant) dynamics also apply to western Kansas. Although that whole cowboy, shoot-em-up, home on the range, buffalo roaming, and don't fence me in thing has certainly proven to be a far more profitable and exportable commodity than the hillbilly fairytale.
I guess it comes down to the effect of that dynamic on people's lives, on who profits and who loses, on who's got the real power and who's never had it, which is, I know, really part of your point too,
j-k-k.
I hope that my post about the cattle drive arriving in Dodge City didn't offend anyone. I was trying to poke fun at myself, actually, and to show that I could take as good as I got. But maybe cowboy humor is a cheap and easy vehicle for an ousider to use, and if so, I'm sorry I used it.
I planned to respond more specifically to your post, and to yours, thriftylefty, rather than babble on about how your points related to my own experiences in another region. And I will! I need to know! Kansas is my big mystery now. But I'm leaving in the morning, and the car is still half-packed. There's a moral in here somewhere, I'm sure, but I'll check in again from the trail, I mean the road - I mean the motel if it has free wireless.
Oh, I forgot - I'll be way up on 80. I was thinking of heading south on 35 at Des Moines, across the northwestern corner of Missouri and entering Kansas at Kansas City. But, I absolutely hate the maze of highways around big cities, so what does anybody think of staying on 80 past Des Moines to 71, then taking 71 south to 136, going through southernmost Nebraska to 81 South, then jog west on 70 and take 156 to 56 to Dodge City. I'd been hoping to stop in Nicodemus, that tiny town founded by former slaves in the 1870s, but it looks like it's pretty out of the way-I'd have to go almost clear across Nebraska to Beaver City. But then it's just a straight shot down 283 to Dodge City. Any opinions? If this helps, I'm more nervous about a Nebraska blizzard than I am about interstates around cities. And I'll be traveling with three pissed-off cats, so maybe faster is better. Hmm...maybe I should just come in on 70. I did really want to see Kansas though, and will I see much of anything on 70?
Okay, I'm turning into a pest. Time to finish packing the car - my friend is doing all the work and he's starting to get a little crabby.
I can't tell you how many people have found it amusing to remark upon the fact that I'm not getting out of Dodge, I'm getting in. Do you get that a lot? I'm already sick of it, and starting to feel protective of Kansas.
Piggydiva, keep us posted on your job decision.
Oh, I posted before seeing your post , catwoman. Wow, what a wealth of information! Thanks!!!
Steam is starting to come out of my friend's ears, possibly because I just told him that there's a reason God gave men bigger muscles - and that's to carry heavy things for us. Heh heh. I've got to go help out, but I'll read your post tomorrow, if there's free wireless in the motel.
Thanks again!!!!
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