Proposed Kentucky Confederate Plate causing debate (Lexington, Louisville: tax, license, island)

[Off Topic]

Originally Posted by kentuckydad95

I will not dance around this and will just say it. More often than not, if you are flying a confederate flag on your home or have a sticker on your car, you dislike people of color. Don't believe me? Head to Marshall County for tater day in April. Also, how many black people do you see flying that flag or having a decal on their vehicle?

This would put KY even further back if you ask me. I say put it on the ballot this fall with the gov's race. Then again, maybe I don't want to see the results.

Bingo on all counts.

[CraigCreek]

If any Kentuckian absolutely has to have the Confederate battle flag on their car, why not use the front? Kentucky only requires a rear license plate, unlike many other states. That way, the appearance of state endorsement will not arise.

I can think of better ways to "honor my ancestors", some of whom fought for the CSA while others fought for the Union. My Confederate Major g-g-grandfather, who was involved in Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg, later refused to discuss his wartime experiences, other than to repeatedly state, "It was all a big mistake", according to my late father, who remembered him well. He walked home from Appomattox and became a leader in his community, devoted to rebuilding its postwar economy and opportunities for all its citizens.

It's important to learn and learn from history, but that learning should enable us not to repeat the errors of the past. Regardless of its original use and symbolism, the battle flag has been abducted by racists and neo-"Confederates" who wouldn't recognize, much less honor, men like my g-g-grandfather if they saw them. I see no need for state sponsorship, real or perceived, of a symbol which has become offensive to many and provocative to some.

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by CraigCreek

If any Kentuckian absolutely has to have the Confederate battle flag on their car, why not use the front? Kentucky only requires a rear license plate, unlike many other states. That way, the appearance of state endorsement will not arise.

I can think of better ways to "honor my ancestors", some of whom fought for the CSA while others fought for the Union. My Confederate Major g-g-grandfather, who was involved in Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg, later refused to discuss his wartime experiences, other than to repeatedly state, "It was all a big mistake", according to my late father, who remembered him well. He walked home from Appomattox and became a leader in his community, devoted to rebuilding its postwar economy and opportunities for all its citizens.

It's important to learn and learn from history, but that learning should enable us not to repeat the errors of the past. Regardless of its original use and symbolism, the battle flag has been abducted by racists and neo-"Confederates" who wouldn't recognize, much less honor, men like my g-g-grandfather if they saw them. I see no need for state sponsorship, real or perceived, of a symbol which has become offensive to many and provocative to some.

The bolded, outside of your grandfather's opinions, is exactly what General Lee said for his men to do, "just go home and start the mending" is basically a paraphrasing of what Marse Robert said. Had I ever met your granddad, I would have shook his hand. Does that make me a "neo-Confederate"? In reality, I'm not, I think right now secession would be the most foolhardy thing ever, but that doesn't mean we can't honor them with their symbols. The flag you mention (or at least what I think that your thinking of) has at least 3 different names. The Confederate Battle Flag (which is a square version of it) and most notably the Confederate Naval Jack (which was also used by the Army of Tennessee), if you see them on a monument or at a re-enactment or (hopefully for the right reasons) in someone's front yard, I don't see a problem.

Back to the point, I have heard before that "Kentucky waited 'till after the war was over to secede from the Union", because IMO even after the War Between the States had ended Kentucky came even further entrenched into the Southern fold. I mean, the Confederate Naval Jack has Kentucky as the center star! (Flags of Georgia, a concise history)

More on the subject: (Amazon.com: Creating a Confederate Kentucky: The Lost Cause and Civil War Memory in a Border State (Civil War America) (9780807834367): Anne Elizabeth Marshall: Books)

[Off Topic]

Originally Posted by CraigCreek

It's important to learn and learn from history, but that learning should enable us not to repeat the errors of the past. Regardless of its original use and symbolism, the battle flag has been abducted by racists and neo-"Confederates" who wouldn't recognize, much less honor, men like my g-g-grandfather if they saw them. I see no need for state sponsorship, real or perceived, of a symbol which has become offensive to many and provocative to some.

Excellent comments.

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by CraigCreek

If any Kentuckian absolutely has to have the Confederate battle flag on their car, why not use the front? Kentucky only requires a rear license plate, unlike many other states. That way, the appearance of state endorsement will not arise.

I can think of better ways to "honor my ancestors", some of whom fought for the CSA while others fought for the Union. My Confederate Major g-g-grandfather, who was involved in Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg, later refused to discuss his wartime experiences, other than to repeatedly state, "It was all a big mistake", according to my late father, who remembered him well. He walked home from Appomattox and became a leader in his community, devoted to rebuilding its postwar economy and opportunities for all its citizens.

It's important to learn and learn from history, but that learning should enable us not to repeat the errors of the past. Regardless of its original use and symbolism, the battle flag has been abducted by racists and neo-"Confederates" who wouldn't recognize, much less honor, men like my g-g-grandfather if they saw them. I see no need for state sponsorship, real or perceived, of a symbol which has become offensive to many and provocative to some.

Thank you for sharing your family history with us, and for your rational, well-spoken view on the subject...bravo, sir

[mco65]

I don't see how you can honor people who are dead at the expense of insulting people who are living. I am a proud Southener and have ancestors that fought for the CSA. I honor them by telling my kids about them and teaching my kids about that time period. Whatever the 'Stars n Bars' used to symbolize 150 years ago is gone. What remains is hatred and racism. I don't see my ancestors when I see the Stars and Bars and I don't think about the Civil War, I see hatred, I see Mississippi Burning.

WTH someone would put that on your license plate is beyond me..

[CraigCreek]

Thank you for your kind and appreciative comments, Capt. Catfish, Off Topic and Desert Kid.

From what I've heard and read, my great great grandfather was an intelligent and brave man, who like many of his fellow Virginians, made the decision to enlist in the Confederate Army for reasons I can only surmise. He saw action as a field officer many times and was wounded in the face at Gettysburg - and wore a beard to hide his scars afterwards - but moved on with the times and served his community productively in later life, while refusing to focus on the past.

He fathered twelve children after the war, owned a large tobacco warehouse, continued his wartime friendship with Buck Duke, and has many descendants. I presently own his Confederate officer's sword (made by Boyle & Gamble of Richmond, VA), along with his photograph and his personally dedicated autographed copy of LaSalle Pickett's book about her late husband, "Pickett and His Men". Having these family heirlooms and stories are my true heritage.

It seems to me that passing along the memories and stories of my great great grandfather is a far better way to remember and honor him than would be flying or displaying the nowadays-provocative Confederate Battle Flag (btw, the "Stars and Bars" is not the Battle Flag, but an earlier Confederate flag which more nearly resembled the Stars and Stripes, as it featured a starry blue field in the upper left quadrant and three red and white horizontal stripes. Its similarity to the Stars and Stripes led to confusion on the battlefield, hence the creation of the very different, dramatic appearing and presently better-known Battle Flag, with its square red field emblazoned with a blue and white St. Andrew's cross adorned with stars representing the Confederate states. As noted by other posters, there are other Confederate flags - the Bonnie Blue Flag would best complete the best-known trio of Confederate flags).

Since the Confederate Battle Flag has become more strongly associated with contemporary racism and hatred rather than with its historic past, I have no desire to display it in any way, despite my ancestor having fought beneath it at Gettysburg and elsewhere. It insults him and the other brave, if initiallly misguided men who refused to become entrenched in a defeated "Cause" after Appomattox, but who instead lived the remainder of their lives honorably and constructively, to see this historic flag so misused by bigots and haters who share neither my ancestor's bravery and leadership in battle, nor his courage and progressiveness in peacetime.

Thanks again for the appreciative responses.

[censusdata]

Not only was Kentucky mostly full of Union loyalist but so were many areas of the Appalachian South - as far south as Alabama! Exact numbers aren't known, but possibly hundreds of White Southerns were murdered because they didn't want to fight for a system that only benefited the Planter Aristocracy (who were exempt from getting draft BTW). So many Appalachians deserted the Confederate army that the gov't actually considered letting Blacks join the army and be granted freedom! Had it not been occupied by Confederates early on East Tennessee and SW Virginia would have followed WV's lead in joining the Union as a new state.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by censusdata

Not only was Kentucky mostly full of Union loyalist but so were many areas of the Appalachian South - as far south as Alabama!

Indeed, over 20,000 white east Tennesseans fought in the Union army against the rebellion. The Kentucky rebel John Morgan was shot dead by an east Tennessee Union soldier.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by L.Funk

Desert kid !!! ... On The Money !

Blimey ... you can just bet that there will always be a few miserybells out thar who will absolutely whine ... whine ... whine all over a lil ole
personalized liscense tag now can't ya mates ?

These bloody muppets had best get a large crying towel and start ta using it on a regular basis ... causin that thar beautiful "Confederate Flag" is ere to stay ! What !

It's an important part of the proud history of those good folks in the States! The beautiful "Confederate Flag" and it's equally "Proud History" may well be around much, much longer than any of it's bloody bonker detractors !!!

Good Show Kentucky ... Follow thru with your plans for this special tag which truly signifies "Southern Pride and Heritage" ... Jolly Good Show !

That thar good ole C.S.A. history is alive and well in the States !!!

America's "Factual" History ... Indeed a national treasure !

Ta / Old Sgt. Lamar

Remember to take your medication tomorow..