Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Visvaldis: UKUKUK's post demonstrates both his lack of good manners and arrogant assumptions about another's education, and is less than respectful to others here. Unfortunately, that means that it is typical of his various posts on this and other Kentucky topics.
It gets tiresome. I find myself losing patience, and I'm not known for lack of patience ordinarily. I do understand UKUKUK is young - as you may be as well - and that maturity and experience have a way of seasoning the views of most of us. Meanwhile, more respect for others and their points of view would be welcome from UKUKUK, yourself, EclecticEars, and others here who repeatedly practice this manner of near-trollish posting. One can be critical of things which one perceives as in attention of critical attention without disrespecting others and their differing points of view.
As a lifelong Kentuckian, I am well-aware that there is much about my native state which needs correction and improvement. Were I able to wave a magic wand, I'd wear out my arm doing so: better education, a better informed populace which is more capable of true critical thinking, more respect for the land, better zoning, more regional planning, cleaner water, cleaner energy, an end to mountaintop removal mining, an end to drug abuse, more and cleaner industry, improved transportation, an end to corruption in local governments, more capable and more statemanlike representatives at all levels, more appreciation for our historic heritage and the relics of that heritage...there's LOTS I'd like to see changed. My profession was chosen in part to help facilitate those changes, and since retiring, I've continued to volunteer my time and contribute my personal resources to constructive causes which matter to me. I support others who do the same, and vote accordingly.
Constantly complaining, minus any positive suggestions or evidence that an individual is making constructive contributions in real life, is wearisome and aggravating to others, as well as being a waste of time and exercise in futility.
It may well be that those who complain here so frequently and so consistently do have private lives in which they do what they can to bring forth needed change. If so, I'd love to hear about it, rather than the constant stream of complaints. I expect other readers would welcome such a change as well.
Thank you.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 09-05-2011 at 05:02 PM..
Reason: clarification
One can be critical of things which one perceives as in attention of critical attention without disrespecting others and their differing points of view.
I'm going to focus on this part of your response and say:
If they don't listen? If they say get with it or get out?
I'm sorry, but I hate to see my home dragged down by these bumbling neanderthals. While the weather may suck and the city may be sprawling and developed in the most illogical way possible with no focus on the community as a whole, instead catering to this mythical "horse industry" which apparently does so much for this state (though I've had little interaction with except for hearing about horses on some backwoods hick's radio blaring country music from his confederate flag clad truck)... it's where I live. I want to see this place modernize and get "with it" like the rest of the country sans Mississippi, Arkansas, and certain parts of Alabama along with smaller enclaves in other states have.
I want to see this state shed its horrible image and grow into something great. I envision a Kentucky in which our swath Appalachia thrives with mountain resorts with world class public schools. I envision Lexington becoming an ultra-modern metropolis with forward thinking people, low crime, and a diversified attraction to people of all sorts, not just agrarian types and Saudi royalty.
I envision Louisville as returning to its glory days and (sadly) Cardinal basketball becoming relevant (just kidding, that'll never happen ). I want to see that city redevelop and conquer the problems it faces with great effectiveness. I want to see our state's universities at the top of the ladder. I want people to think "UK" when they hear "public Ivy", not Indiana or Illinois! I want to be competitive with that state to the south of us. I want to see Covington's beautiful historic homes revitalized and for Newport and Mainstrasse to attract people from not only the upper south but all over the world with their excellent attractions.
All of this can be done. I volunteer in this community, believe it or not, to do what little I can. I don't like it here but I know this place has the potential to change. Many places have overcome far greater obstacles.
What we don't realize though... is that "get with it or get out" is not the attitude. You can't say "OH LORD, YOU'RE SO RUDE" when someone brings to your attention yet another flaw of this state as it follows its downward spiral pattern into the toilet bowl which is the American south.
Yes, we are harsh... but we are harsh only because you guys are the ones who say "get with it or get out" then proceed to cover your ears and speak of horses, tobacco, and manufacturing which are industries far past their prime in this state and in this country. Manufacturing may bounce back one day with smart international trade policy. Short of that, horses and tobacco are both irrelevant in this state except for to a small group of the wealthy.
I'm not a member of that group. Most people aren't. That's why we post things like this. Our family didn't buy up farmland when it was cheap nor are we Billy Joe's aunt's cousin who can hook us up with a job.
tl;dr Kentucky sucks and you're all in denial to the point where we have to shout it and you still cover your ears and turn away.
Attacking my education doesn't help your point and has nothing to do with your feelings about Kentucky. As well, you are welcome to spend some time in the George Washington University library. You will find my thesis there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKUKUK
Your writing makes me believe that you probably got your M.A. in English from ITT Tech, as you do not write anywhere near a level that would be considered proficient to earn a graduate degree anywhere reputable with any sort of accreditation.
Also, if there is more money to be made in heating and cooling than with a college degree then KY's problem of "brain drain" is finally explained. One wonders why the top talent leaves this state? There are no REAL jobs here unless you count the ones you get through the Good Ol' Boys Network or HVAC repair and installation.
Why does Minnesota (a heavily agrarian state) have nearly twice as many students at 8th grade that are proficient in math, science, English and reading than Kentucky?
Yeah, there are uneducated and lazy people everywhere but Kentucky has more than most places and that only drags us down. What is truly astonishing is that nobody cares to fix it but instead says "don't like it? Leave!"
UKUKUK: If "they don't listen" or "say, 'get with the program or get out'", then perhaps changing your manner and method of delivering what you admit is a harsh message might be more effective in finding common ground. Referring to fellow Kentuckians as "bumbling Neanderthals", and "backwoods hicks", and to our region as "the toilet bowl which is the American south" isn't exactly the way to win hearts and minds to your position. Instead, it's highly judgemental, condescending and quite offensive to many. So if you want to be heard and taken seriously, cut it out. Be respectful, even if you feel your "audience" doesn't deserve it, is inferior to you, or isn't likely to include like-minded folks. Unless you treat others courteously, you will have a long hard road ahead of you, no matter where you find yourself.
By the way, I'm half Arkansan. I come from a long line of Arkansas teachers and educators, tracing back well over the last 150 years. Have you spent time in Arkansas lately? You should; it's a happening place. Downtown Little Rock has been revitalized and includes streetcars, many outstanding museums, restored historic buildings - an entire square block of them at the old Territorial Restoration - restaurants and a city market, a renovated pedestrian bridge across the Arkansas River to North Little Rock, an outstanding public library, and more. And that's just Little Rock. The rest of the Rackensack includes several outstandingly scenic and heavily forested mountain ranges, illustrious scenic and historic state parks, other historic sites of all kinds, spring-fed mountain rivers, spectacular caves and springs and waterfalls, a lively traditional music and dance scene, beautiful handmade traditional crafts of all kinds, academically reknowned public and private colleges and universities, beautiful clear quartz crystals plus a wider variety of rocks and minerals than is found anywhere else in the lower 48 states, a productive diamond mine, the world's largest watermelons, many large lakes for boating and fishing and other watersports, outstanding duck hunting around the "rice and duck capitol of the world", Stuttgart, pre-Columbian Indian mounds and petroglyphs, plus lots more. It also includes some of the brightest, most original, and most creative people I know. They're not all my relatives, either.
Insulting Arkansas and other states doesn't help your position re. Kentucky's needs at all. Instead, you just revealed your lack of knowledge of yet another lovely yet little-known place.
I never wrote that you should "get with it or get out". Others have suggested that you might find another place more congenial, but that's not the same as saying love it or leave it.
I do see your idealism, and it's admirable in a young person. I share a good many of your concerns and frustrations, as you can see from my previous post. I'm glad to learn that you volunteer for some good cause, and wish more people would do the same.
But I also see a lot of impatience, intolerance and superiority. You might want to work on those.
You "can't bomb in like Joe Crusader", to quote some otherwise unremembered novel from my own '60s generation, which was also noted for wanting to effect great change, if you want to be "heard" and taken seriously by the powers that be. It's ineffective and makes people you want to influence become more entrenched in their own opposing positions, and worse, it may also alienate these people from others who share your concerns.
Occasionally you may feel that you have to resort to such tactics, as a last or next-to-the-last resort, but doing so here - this online forum - isn't going to make much difference in the ways of the world, or even the ways of Lexington. What it is doing is alienating people who might otherwise join you in your concerns.
Instead, you need to have a plan.
So here are some questions and suggestions for you to consider:
Do you attend Urban County Government Council Meetings? How about meetings of the Planning and Zoning Commission? Do you contact your local representative when you see something amiss in your neighborhood, or have an idea about something which might work better if it were tried? Similarly, do your state and federal representatives hear from you? Have you visited Frankfort when the legislature is in session? Ever written the governor? How about your congressmen, do they hear from you? Most maintain local offices which welcome calls.
Back to Lexington: how about calling the Streets and Roads Department about potholes or burned-out streetlights or malfunctioning traffic lights or litter on the roadsides? They've been very responsive to such minor but irritating concerns when I've called them. Do you ask Parks and Recreation to increase or change their programs and activities? Have you asked the public library to add to the collection in relevant areas, offer programs of interest to you and like-minded folks, or suggested guest speakers for programs? Believe me, the library staff LOVES to get feasible suggestions or recommendations for guest speakers or programs. Have you attended school board meetings? Our new superintendent is learning about Lexington's schools. Can you offer insight?
Doing these things will help get you heard, will increase your knowledge and understanding of how local government works, and might even begin to correct some of the flaws you find in Lexington. And you'll feel good about having instigated productive changes, no matter how small. It's far better than unproductively grousing here day after day.
You have to start small, near home, to fix what needs fixing. Sure, there are greater issues and greater problems - but it's better to address those which realistically can be addressed than to unproductively fuss and fume over things outside your present reach. For those, try contacting people who CAN make a difference. Usually they're elected or appointed to office. If they aren't getting it done, join an activist group such as Kentuckians for the Commonwealth, the Prichard Committee's mailing list, Common Ground, or whatever other group shares your concerns, then work to vote 'em out at the next election, work for their opponents, create petitions to get issues on the ballot, and keep writing and calling and emailing their offices meanwhile. Make your concerns known to those who are in decision-making positions.
Just don't further frustrate yourself and alienate others by spinning your wheels with constant complaints here.
Understand, I am NOT telling you to leave either this forum or Kentucky. Just make better and more constructive use of your time and considerable talents, okay?
Now please reread, take notes, and outline this message. Please focus on my suggestions, not on how you're going to defensively respond with yet more disrespectful insults and complaints about problems beyond your present ability to address effectively. Then think about what you CAN do productively, in real life, not in this very unrepresentative virtual Kentucky of a forum.
Thanks. Do get back to us when you've read this post and tried some of my suggestions, okay?
Last edited by CraigCreek; 09-05-2011 at 10:22 PM..
Had an interesting 2-hour discussion with a retired businessman,
Visited two uber laid-back California beach towns,
Took in the consistently 75-degree high temperatures with sunny skies,
Eaten British food before walking out on the wharf in Monterey,
Climbed down rocks in a Central Coast preserve early in the morning just to have the coastline to myself,
Camped out in the cool, crisp night,
Rode my new mountain bike,
Had some drinks in a fusion sushi restaurant,
Walked around one of the nation's most expensive and exclusive shopping centers, and
Tried New York-style pizza (yes, on the West Coast).
Tomorrow, I'll go to work in an office that is very laid back and where half of my co-workers usually show up a few minutes late, anyway.
Yep, my new California lifestyle is really stressful. I'll always be proud to be from Kentucky, but my lifestyle is already more active here than it ever was there. Who knows about five years, ten years, etc., but I know this has been, so far, a positive change.
CraigCreek,
I didn't quote your post to save space.
Three years ago I sent a short letter with a well drawn diagram (I'm a graphic artist) of a road junction in my Louisville neighborhood to the responsible city councilman. For safety reasons I suggested that a light beam be adjusted to illuminate possible pedestrians (no marked crosswalk) instead of shining in a motorist's eyes. I received no reply, not even an acknowledgement that my writing was received. It probably wound up in the trash without a second thought.
My neighborhood is trashy, no sidewalks, uneven gravel parking areas, holes in the pavement. Discarded trash (including old tires, used furniture, cardboard boxes) is everywhere. Two years ago the large window of an abandoned business was smashed, the large glass shards laid around for about two months before the windows were finally boarded and the glass cleaned up. I have no idea who owns the property. Seeing my neighborhood daily, I've adjusted. But if I am gone for several days and return, the neighborhood is an eyesore. I've often wondered if out-of-towners came to visit me, what would they think of the neighborhood. I have the feeling that I'm the only one who believes the neighborhood can be improved. Many parts of Louisville can be improved, but who really cares?
I haven't even mentioned the low education level and lack of culture.
If the Kentuckians (and Louisvillians) feel insulted or degraded by comments, then how can this be communicated? The Kentuckians become hostile, all unpleasant remarks go in one ear and out the other.
Some years ago, in The Funny Times (a monthly newspaper with many political and social cartoons), I read a short cartoon. In one frame the woman says, "I"ll probably be sent to a gulag for intellectuals, somewhere in Kentucky".
You are very fortunate, indeed. The unemployment rate in California is now at 12.5 percent. I enjoyed my time in California during the 60's but would not live there again. At my age now, the pace of living is just a bit to fast and on my last visit about 3 years ago, the beaches were filthy and I couldn't breathe the air. You should have seen the beaches during the 60's. They were beautiful. One could walk barefooted across the sand without the fear of a needle stuck in the foot. No nasty pop tops or broken glass. We used to sit on the beach in Monterey and Carmel, play our guitars all night and breathe clean air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticEars
Well...just since I've moved here, I have:
Tried rice with cheese wrapped in grape leaves,
Eaten fried kale,
Had an interesting 2-hour discussion with a retired businessman,
Visited two uber laid-back California beach towns,
Took in the consistently 75-degree high temperatures with sunny skies,
Eaten British food before walking out on the wharf in Monterey,
Climbed down rocks in a Central Coast preserve early in the morning just to have the coastline to myself,
Camped out in the cool, crisp night,
Rode my new mountain bike,
Had some drinks in a fusion sushi restaurant,
Walked around one of the nation's most expensive and exclusive shopping centers, and
Tried New York-style pizza (yes, on the West Coast).
Tomorrow, I'll go to work in an office that is very laid back and where half of my co-workers usually show up a few minutes late, anyway.
Yep, my new California lifestyle is really stressful. I'll always be proud to be from Kentucky, but my lifestyle is already more active here than it ever was there. Who knows about five years, ten years, etc., but I know this has been, so far, a positive change.
Visvaldis: UKUKUK's post demonstrates both his lack of good manners and arrogant assumptions about another's education, and is less than respectful to others here. Unfortunately, that means that it is typical of his various posts on this and other Kentucky topics.
It gets tiresome. I find myself losing patience, and I'm not known for lack of patience ordinarily. I do understand UKUKUK is young - as you may be as well - and that maturity and experience have a way of seasoning the views of most of us. Meanwhile, more respect for others and their points of view would be welcome from UKUKUK, yourself, EclecticEars, and others here who repeatedly practice this manner of near-trollish posting. One can be critical of things which one perceives as in attention of critical attention without disrespecting others and their differing points of view.
As a lifelong Kentuckian, I am well-aware that there is much about my native state which needs correction and improvement. Were I able to wave a magic wand, I'd wear out my arm doing so: better education, a better informed populace which is more capable of true critical thinking, more respect for the land, better zoning, more regional planning, cleaner water, cleaner energy, an end to mountaintop removal mining, an end to drug abuse, more and cleaner industry, improved transportation, an end to corruption in local governments, more capable and more statemanlike representatives at all levels, more appreciation for our historic heritage and the relics of that heritage...there's LOTS I'd like to see changed. My profession was chosen in part to help facilitate those changes, and since retiring, I've continued to volunteer my time and contribute my personal resources to constructive causes which matter to me. I support others who do the same, and vote accordingly.
Constantly complaining, minus any positive suggestions or evidence that an individual is making constructive contributions in real life, is wearisome and aggravating to others, as well as being a waste of time and exercise in futility.
It may well be that those who complain here so frequently and so consistently do have private lives in which they do what they can to bring forth needed change. If so, I'd love to hear about it, rather than the constant stream of complaints. I expect other readers would welcome such a change as well.
Thank you.
Thank you for your well thought out explanation. You definitley have more patience than I do...lol.
EclecticEars: Sounds as if you've found "your place". I'm happy for you and hope you continue to enjoy your new location. Check out scuba in Monterey Bay - there's a good dive shop run by an old (as in grew-up-in, not necessarily ancient) Lexingtonian there. He's a bit crusty, but is a very bright, articulate and interesting guy. Have you visited the aquarium yet? It's also outstanding. Beautiful area, as if much of the northern CA coast.
Visvaldis: My comments referred to my hometown of Lexington rather than Louisville,though I expect some of what I suggested might well apply to Louisville as well. My family left Louisville for Lexington when I was three or four, so I'm less acquainted with the Derby City's problems and assets than I am those of Lexington and the surrounding Inner Bluegrass.
I'm sorry your thoughtful suggestions in regard to street lighting, trash, and neglect in Louisville got no response - did you call back to make sure they reached the right party? Frustrating...I do think Lexington's Urban County Government seems to work better than Louisville's local government - perhaps having been established longer makes a difference. As Lexington is smaller in both population and urban area, that makes keeping on top of maintenance considerably easier as well, though there are certainly parts of town which clearly need more and better attention. I love Lexington dearly, but I'm not one who sees no fault in her.
Does your Louisville neighborhood have a neighborhood association? If not, perhaps you could try to start one. Find a meeting place, distribute flyers door-to-door, and see who shows up. Have an order of business and be sure to allow for lots of input. Come up with a list of neighborhood concerns, then form committees or brainstorm to further examine the problems and come up with proposals for potential solutions. Also, look at ways to get people better acquainted with one another: a neighborhood picnic or potluck or family-friendly street party, block-long yard sales, etc. Activities like these are enjoyable and empowering.
You might start with something as simple as getting five or six volunteers armed with brooms and dustpans and trashbags to clean up the trashy sidewalks some weekend, or it could get more involved. Have you looked into building code requirements and enforcement in your area? It sounds as if there are lots of violations and little prompt enforcement. I have a feeling the authorities might take complaints coming from a neighborhood association a lot more seriously than they have taken complaints from individuals in the past.
As I've stated elsewhere, you have to start small, you have to get personally involved, and you may well have to be persistent in your efforts. But it can be done. Don't lose heart, fall for the negativities, or fall into the fallacious trap of condemning other Kentuckians (or any other group) as being stupid, etc. That just spins your wheels, annoys others, and keeps your valid concerns from being heard and understood by those who otherwise might be your best allies, given a different approach. Be respectful, be persistent, don't be afraid to get your hands dirty or to get tired, encourage others rather than discourage them, and keep your goals do-able. Don't expect to accomplish miracles overnight, but expect to make a positive difference that may be small, but that may be just the beginning of needed change.
One person CAN make a difference. Be that one person who makes the needed differences by finding others who share your dreams and joining with them to make them reality.
Dixiegirl7: Thanks for your nice comments. I worked with the public for over 28 years, so have had lots of lessons in patience and taking the long, realistic, yet reasonably optimistic view. Keep up your own good posts - I enjoy them.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 09-06-2011 at 09:41 PM..
Reason: punctuation
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
). I want to see that city redevelop and conquer the problems it faces with great effectiveness. I want to see our state's universities at the top of the ladder. I want people to think "UK" when they hear "public Ivy", not Indiana or Illinois! I want to be competitive with that state to the south of us. I want to see Covington's beautiful historic homes revitalized and for Newport and Mainstrasse to attract people from not only the upper south but all over the world with their excellent attractions.
I'll always be proud to be from Kentucky, but my lifestyle is already more active here than it ever was there. Who knows about five years, ten years, etc., but I know this has been, so far, a positive change.
