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Old 07-21-2014, 02:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EricOldTime View Post
I agree, it's soo unfortunate..
By the way in the risk of thread drift, have any of you ever heard of the documentary about the wild "moonshinin" "pot-growing" bunch down in Washington (Warshinton) and Marion county around Lebanon south of Louisville? The book was called "The Cornbread Mafia" and I'm not sure if I'm proud to say this but I'm related to most of those folks in that book, I found out through some geneology research that took me to that area...probably about 3rd cousins something like that LOL. Those guys were some of the biggest moonshiners and pot runners in all of Kentucky....and some of them are currently staying at the "Eddyville Hilton" and resort nowadays.

The 2nd great grandfather of a few of those guys is the brother of my 2nd great grandfather who also was born in "Raywick" Kentucky. I ain't naming surnames, ....a little too close to Louisville LOL

These are some of my distant kin: Cornbread mafia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of them was on "Americas Most Wanted" I'm sure that many of ya'll around Louisville probably remember hearing about it...
Wow. I actually have a relative that did moonshining. He wasn't from Kentucky, he was from Mississippi(Some of my relatives are African-Americans who were part of the Great Migration). For my relative during the 30s, making moonshine was a way of supplementing what income he could get, as he was a sharecropper.

Now, I have heard of the pot growing taking place in Kentucky. Marijuana is actually the #1 cash crop of Kentucky. More marijuana is produced in Kentucky than anywhere else in the USA, except California.

I believe marijuana is a big reason why moonshining has died out, or is dying out. Alcoholic beverages are legal, and there are so many kinds to choose from(beer, wine, vodka, rum, Bourbon(which is produced in Kentucky), sake, gin, etc), and alcoholic beverages are widely available. I can walk down to the gas station, less than a mile away, and buy a 40 oz of cheap beer for $1.50. I'm not going to because I rarely drink, and I wouldn't go for a 40. However, the point is, it's legal and easy to get. Furthermore, moonshine takes alot of time and work to make. I won't spare much detail on the process. It's alot of painstaking work. Marijuana, you just put the seeds in the ground, and watch it grow.


There has been some violence that has taken place. Alot of it related to trying to protected the crops from being taken or detected.

Will Legal Pot End Appalachia’s Biggest Cash Crop? | The Revivalist
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Wow. I actually have a relative that did moonshining. He wasn't from Kentucky, he was from Mississippi(Some of my relatives are African-Americans who were part of the Great Migration). For my relative during the 30s, making moonshine was a way of supplementing what income he could get, as he was a sharecropper.

Now, I have heard of the pot growing taking place in Kentucky. Marijuana is actually the #1 cash crop of Kentucky. More marijuana is produced in Kentucky than anywhere else in the USA, except California.

I believe marijuana is a big reason why moonshining has died out, or is dying out. Alcoholic beverages are legal, and there are so many kinds to choose from(beer, wine, vodka, rum, Bourbon(which is produced in Kentucky), sake, gin, etc), and alcoholic beverages are widely available. I can walk down to the gas station, less than a mile away, and buy a 40 oz of cheap beer for $1.50. I'm not going to because I rarely drink, and I wouldn't go for a 40. However, the point is, it's legal and easy to get. Furthermore, moonshine takes alot of time and work to make. I won't spare much detail on the process. It's alot of painstaking work. Marijuana, you just put the seeds in the ground, and watch it grow.


There has been some violence that has taken place. Alot of it related to trying to protected the crops from being taken or detected.

Will Legal Pot End Appalachia’s Biggest Cash Crop? | The Revivalist

Well bootleg liquor and marijuana harvesting is wrong in my book....two wrongs don't make a right. However, I understand some folks that live in abject poverty, it's sadly very appealing to them. Some of these poor folks have had cycles of generations of poverty and addictions, that's really hard to break when that happens, but their are folks that get out of it
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EricOldTime View Post
Well bootleg liquor and marijuana harvesting is wrong in my book....two wrongs don't make a right. However, I understand some folks that live in abject poverty, it's sadly very appealing to them. Some of these poor folks have had cycles of generations of poverty and addictions, that's really hard to break when that happens, but their are folks that get out of it
I'm not the type to recommend recreational use of marijuana. At the same time, I don't think a persons should go to prison for personal use of marijuana.

Back to the topic. What you mentioned regarding the growing of marijuana and abject poverty, it made me think of something. And I really hate making this comparison. There is alot of poppy cultivation taking place in the mountains of Afghanistan, Myanmar, and Pakistan. People living in abject poverty were finding that they could make money by growing poppy flowers. The resin from those flowers is the main ingredient for heroin. Life is very hard in those areas and many have resorted to desperate measures. Many people decide to break the cycle. There are also those who get trapped.

This is the way I look at it. With the bootleg liquor, I would say if one wants to make alcohol, it would be a good idea to obtain a license for making it. And making the stuff can be more than just about drinking. Ethanol fuel is made the same way. There is money in it.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:53 AM
 
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I took a look at the map, being the map aficionado that I am. It isn't only the Appalachian counties of Kentucky that are the hardest places to live. It is all throughout Kentucky that is quite difficult according to the map and the factors given.
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:36 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Kentucky south of the Louisville / Lexington metro regions are quite a bit below the national average in income but is still a lot better statistically than the mountains. The I-64 corridor from Louisville to Lexington is above the national average in all categories I've seen, as are the 3 counties across from Cincy.

I grew up (ages 4 to 11) about 20 miles from the edge of the mountains west of Somerset. Although there are lot of similarities between where I lived and the near edge of Appalachia I could always tell a significant difference when I traveled there. It just seems like the problems get 3X worse when you cross that imaginary boundary.
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Old 07-23-2014, 07:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Kentucky south of the Louisville / Lexington metro regions are quite a bit below the national average in income but is still a lot better statistically than the mountains. The I-64 corridor from Louisville to Lexington is above the national average in all categories I've seen, as are the 3 counties across from Cincy.

I grew up (ages 4 to 11) about 20 miles from the edge of the mountains west of Somerset. Although there are lot of similarities between where I lived and the near edge of Appalachia I could always tell a significant difference when I traveled there. It just seems like the problems get 3X worse when you cross that imaginary boundary.
Do the mountains start on the eastern edge of Somerset and Pulaski Co or do you have to drive clear over to Laurel County before it begins?
Also what about the counties north and east of Lexington and also I-71 from Louisville up to near Cinnci, are they below the natl average, better than areas below Louisville, Lexington? And western Ky?
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:38 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Originally Posted by EricOldTime View Post
Do the mountains start on the eastern edge of Somerset and Pulaski Co or do you have to drive clear over to Laurel County before it begins?
Also what about the counties north and east of Lexington and also I-71 from Louisville up to near Cinnci, are they below the natl average, better than areas below Louisville, Lexington? And western Ky?
The cutoff line btw the Appalachian plateau and the rolling hills of the Pennyrile Region cuts across from NE to SW and basically splits Pulaski Co (Somerset) in half. Somerset sits at the foot of the hill. West and North of Somerset are rolling hills and farmland that is very similar to what you'd find most places throughout Southern and Western KY. Now London / Laurel Co is an odd case. Culturally it is Eastern KY and it's surrounded by more rugged terrain... but for some reason most of Laurel Co is pretty flat. So there is lots of land for farming and development. LC is poor compared to Lexington but it has a strong economy for E KY and a decent amount of population growth. They have a decent size hospital and a large Wal Mart distribution center.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
The cutoff line btw the Appalachian plateau and the rolling hills of the Pennyrile Region cuts across from NE to SW and basically splits Pulaski Co (Somerset) in half. Somerset sits at the foot of the hill. West and North of Somerset are rolling hills and farmland that is very similar to what you'd find most places throughout Southern and Western KY. Now London / Laurel Co is an odd case. Culturally it is Eastern KY and it's surrounded by more rugged terrain... but for some reason most of Laurel Co is pretty flat. So there is lots of land for farming and development. LC is poor compared to Lexington but it has a strong economy for E KY and a decent amount of population growth. They have a decent size hospital and a large Wal Mart distribution center.
I've never been down there in that area of Kentucky but my cousin ( who lives in O'boro ) her husband is from Middlesboro and I've met folks from Laurel Co and London. It's funny they pronounce it "Lawn-dun" and Laurel is pronounced "lawl" county in that east Kentucky accent... My dad's friends mother was from London Ky, she was as hillbilly as they get, but a great lady, great sense of humor.

I also always thought that London Ky was in the mountains but it looks like just east of London and it's def straight up into the mountains. Isn't Corbin kinda down in that valley there also? So as soon as you leave Pulaski and get into that area a little further east I assume from your comment it's like going back in time or stepping into almost the 3rd world in a way no? I mean that much poverty, or how would you describe it?

I always thought the Pennyrile was Hop-town and Madisonville over in far western Kentucky between Owensboro, Bowling Green and LBL? That triangle area down there I've always heard it referred to as the "Pennyrile" by folks in western Kentucky
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Old 07-25-2014, 06:18 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Originally Posted by EricOldTime View Post
I've never been down there in that area of Kentucky but my cousin ( who lives in O'boro ) her husband is from Middlesboro and I've met folks from Laurel Co and London. It's funny they pronounce it "Lawn-dun" and Laurel is pronounced "lawl" county in that east Kentucky accent... My dad's friends mother was from London Ky, she was as hillbilly as they get, but a great lady, great sense of humor.

I also always thought that London Ky was in the mountains but it looks like just east of London and it's def straight up into the mountains. Isn't Corbin kinda down in that valley there also? So as soon as you leave Pulaski and get into that area a little further east I assume from your comment it's like going back in time or stepping into almost the 3rd world in a way no? I mean that much poverty, or how would you describe it?

I always thought the Pennyrile was Hop-town and Madisonville over in far western Kentucky between Owensboro, Bowling Green and LBL? That triangle area down there I've always heard it referred to as the "Pennyrile" by folks in western Kentucky
Pennyrile Region extends from the Tennessee River all the way to London / Mt Vernon area. London is culturally Eastern KY but is actually is the Pennyrile Region. Where Cumberland Falls is is actually where the river flows down off the Appalachian Plateau. But either side of the river looks the same to the naked eye.

A lot of my feeling about E KY and how different it is comes from differences btw my mom's family (that I lived with) in Russell and Casey counties vs my dad's brother and his family an hour away near Corbin (dad was from Harlan. My uncle married a woman from Corbin). My earliest memories (around age 5) visiting dad's family where of them making fun of me for putting a seat belt on as soon as I got in the car ("we've got a little sissy riding with us today"), making fun of me for bringing books with me ("only girls read books") and how they would immediately steal my toys and vandalize them rather than asking for them and then taking turns. When I was 15 my cousin tried to fight me and throw me in a farm pond because I wouldn't smoke a cigarette with him LOL. I have pretty much decided all of them are poor White trash and have had no contact with them in over 13 years.

Mom and her siblings grew up poor as dirt - mom was a teenager when they got electricity or running water in the 1950s - but they were all very smart and taught good manners. Every one of my aunts and uncles worked hard and raised good children. I view them as good Southern Gentlemen and Gentlewomen. They're country and most aren't rolling in the dough, but they all are reasonably educated, well mannered, and treat other people with respect.
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
Pennyrile Region extends from the Tennessee River all the way to London / Mt Vernon area. London is culturally Eastern KY but is actually is the Pennyrile Region. Where Cumberland Falls is is actually where the river flows down off the Appalachian Plateau. But either side of the river looks the same to the naked eye.

A lot of my feeling about E KY and how different it is comes from differences btw my mom's family (that I lived with) in Russell and Casey counties vs my dad's brother and his family an hour away near Corbin (dad was from Harlan. My uncle married a woman from Corbin). My earliest memories (around age 5) visiting dad's family where of them making fun of me for putting a seat belt on as soon as I got in the car ("we've got a little sissy riding with us today"), making fun of me for bringing books with me ("only girls read books") and how they would immediately steal my toys and vandalize them rather than asking for them and then taking turns. When I was 15 my cousin tried to fight me and throw me in a farm pond because I wouldn't smoke a cigarette with him LOL. I have pretty much decided all of them are poor White trash and have had no contact with them in over 13 years.

Mom and her siblings grew up poor as dirt - mom was a teenager when they got electricity or running water in the 1950s - but they were all very smart and taught good manners. Every one of my aunts and uncles worked hard and raised good children. I view them as good Southern Gentlemen and Gentlewomen. They're country and most aren't rolling in the dough, but they all are reasonably educated, well mannered, and treat other people with respect.
I can relate to this quite a bit, your mom's family sounds like my mothers family. My mom was born in Hancock Co Kentucky just shy of the Hancock/Ohio county line east, southeast of Owensboro. She grew up in our families "Old Homeplace" as we call it in southern Hancock County and it's back in the hills and hollers, not quite mountains but rolling wooded knobs, old winding gravel roads and very small farms tucked in tiny hollers. This farm was built by my 2nd great grandfather who migrated to the area from western Marion County Kentucky in the late 1800's, a central Kentucky Catholic family. My grandfather and his father was born on this farm and my grandfather at that time shortly after he married, inherited it. They raised Tobacco ( like most families in the area ) and my grandfather also worked on the side as a "wildcater" working privately leased crude-oil pumps, maintaining them etc. Lot's of crude oil and natural gas wells in western Kentucky. Their only entertainment was the occasional country string dances, lot's of hunting ( mainly fox/coon hunting ) and fishing in that area, as it was fairly isolated. They went into "the big city" of Owensboro once a year to get fitted with new shoes for all of the kids and clothes, once a year, and my mom remembers it being a huge trip, a really big deal ( about 35 miles.

My mom remembers playing under an old Shagbark Hickory in the front yard and wandering the hills and hollers as a little girl with her 2 older brothers, making toy figurines outta red clay banks that they found, one of my uncles was really talented at that my mom said. She remembers popping popcorn on the ole potbelly and reading by oil lantern light and using bed pans in the winter months. Of course, they had that all too familiar Kentucky commodity "the outhouse". From Kindergarten to 3rd grade they were taught in a little 1 room school house that was in the area, after that she was bused to Hawesville to school...my mom remembers as a little kid feeling strange as Hawesville was such a large town to her ( even if it only has about 12,000 people.

Later my grandfather came into a bit of money on some oil wells and got a job at an Aluminum factory on the river, so they moved outta of the old-homeplace, gave it to his brother ( my great-uncle ) and bought a house a little closer to Owensboro in a very small town but closer in, out of the hills of Hancock and Ohio counties and into the rolling farms and fields of Daviess county, right next door. It was a fancy "Indiana Bedford Limestone" house ( expensive materials in the late 50's early 60's in house building in the area. And my mom remembers it was the first time they had toilets that flushed, actual faucets instead of a hand pump in the kitchen and electricity. My granny still lives in that house today and everyone lives all around the area.

Most of my family is like yours, hard working, christian, country, southern gentiles and lady types. Even a few of my uncles that used to be a bit wild when they were younger have all settled down with families now. They are very good people and taught me and gave me alot of good things in life. Kinda shy folks, great senses of humours. I often tell people that when I saw the movie "Elizabethtown" in some ways I could see some familiar things in my own Ky family: the big family gatherings, BBQ'd mutton, pork and Burgoo, talking all of us at the same time, grandkids and kids running around, eating homemade ice-cream, music. Just being a family and having a good time. We're all very close... so when I read what you wrote, I could relate.
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