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Old 06-28-2014, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Near L.A.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/up...s&emc=rss&_r=3
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Old 06-29-2014, 09:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EclecticEars View Post

The comments (now closed) from readers are most interesting - several point out flaws in this survey that are worthy of consideration (varying populations of counties, potentially skewed values in assessing quality of life, etc.).
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:41 AM
 
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Crime isn't even considered in this amazing survey.
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Old 07-05-2014, 02:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Janeite View Post
Crime isn't even considered in this amazing survey.
There are major issues with drugs in eastern Kentucky. And in some years, some eastern Kentucky counties had a murder rate roughly on par with the inner city.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
There are major issues with drugs in eastern Kentucky. And in some years, some eastern Kentucky counties had a murder rate roughly on par with the inner city.
Eastern Kentucky in many ways IMHO is a casualty of it's own geography and access to poor infrastructure.

The mountain people are fighters though but I read recently that they've been that way since way back. Many of them are very clannish and I know that until fairly recently in some pockets the age old practice of "dueling" think old-western movies and Hamilton and Burr" was sometimes a way to "settle accounts" if some one "crossed you" the wrong way in those hills.
Also in the old days, being on the wrong side of politics in some of those eastern Ky counties could get you 6 feet-under as well. How many sheriffs and judges and people that have run for office have been killed and assassinated? Pulaski county Sheriff is one that comes to mind and that was fairly recent.
Ultimately I agree: The poverty, lack of education, jobs, drugs have all wreaked havoc on that region. I feel bad for alot of those people, especially the young kids. Anyone see that documentary a while back that Diane Sawyer did on Pike county and eastern Ky?
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:03 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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My dad's family were from Harlan County, since the 1970s all my close family have left there for SW Ohio, E Tennessee, or Central KY. I have one uncle who moved back to E KY, though not Harlan but the Corbin area where his wife is from.

One thing that makes E KY and most of WV worse off than the rest of Appalachia is the utter lack of flat farmable/ buildable land. Tennessee and Virginia have a ridge and valley type of terrain that allows farming ( a great source of income) in most places. Confounding this is that most of the mountains are not locally owned but are either public forest or coal company owned. Most people own very little land and reside in the tiny valleys that frequently flood

By comparison my mom's family in Casey and Russell counties in Southern KY - areas that are also isolated - make a good living just by owning better land. They periodically get money to log parts of their land and they can lease out the rest to grow hay. Even if you don't own a tractor you can make money on your land. My grandma got tens of thousands of dollars for logging rights for maybe 20 acres of forest and they didn't touch half the trees.
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EricOldTime View Post
Eastern Kentucky in many ways IMHO is a casualty of it's own geography and access to poor infrastructure.

The mountain people are fighters though but I read recently that they've been that way since way back. Many of them are very clannish and I know that until fairly recently in some pockets the age old practice of "dueling" think old-western movies and Hamilton and Burr" was sometimes a way to "settle accounts" if some one "crossed you" the wrong way in those hills.
Also in the old days, being on the wrong side of politics in some of those eastern Ky counties could get you 6 feet-under as well. How many sheriffs and judges and people that have run for office have been killed and assassinated? Pulaski county Sheriff is one that comes to mind and that was fairly recent.
Ultimately I agree: The poverty, lack of education, jobs, drugs have all wreaked havoc on that region. I feel bad for alot of those people, especially the young kids. Anyone see that documentary a while back that Diane Sawyer did on Pike county and eastern Ky?
I actually did watch the documentary you are speaking off. Diane Sawyer is from Kentucky herself. I never knew that until I read about her.

I definitely know about the clannishness that exists in some communities. I watched a show on either the History Channel or NatGeo. There was a part that talked about the drug problems in Kentucky, particularly with marijuana. One law enforcement officer mentioned that in the towns he went to, the people were clannish and quite close-mouthed about many things.

I know about the dueling. Some of the cultural traits you speak of mirror that of the lowland regions of Scotland/far north of England during the 1700s. There was alot of violence taking place during that time in that region. Clannishness was big as well. I would say the spotty access in the mountains held some things in for a while.

I've heard about the sheriff that got murdered. That reminds me of a dictatorship frighteningly enough.

It's a hard region to live in, no lie. I watched the documentary and the more I watched, the more some of this reminded me of the inner city. Substance abuse, welfare dependency, extreme poverty, low education attainment, bad schools, and big health problems. Food is quite bad too.

Some differences though. In the inner city, alot of people live cheek to jowl. More people around and more people to get into trouble with. Appalachia, on the other hand, a low population density. While violence can still take place, there aren't gangs like there are in the inner city.

Environmental degradation is the same. Appalachia has basically been raped environmentally. Many of the mining operations have done things to mountains you would not believe. In some places, water quality mirrors that of some 3rd world places. I've seen documentaries where people have flushed the toilet and the water turned black, or water came out of the faucet brown.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I actually did watch the documentary you are speaking off. Diane Sawyer is from Kentucky herself. I never knew that until I read about her.

I definitely know about the clannishness that exists in some communities. I watched a show on either the History Channel or NatGeo. There was a part that talked about the drug problems in Kentucky, particularly with marijuana. One law enforcement officer mentioned that in the towns he went to, the people were clannish and quite close-mouthed about many things.

I know about the dueling. Some of the cultural traits you speak of mirror that of the lowland regions of Scotland/far north of England during the 1700s. There was alot of violence taking place during that time in that region. Clannishness was big as well. I would say the spotty access in the mountains held some things in for a while.

I've heard about the sheriff that got murdered. That reminds me of a dictatorship frighteningly enough.

It's a hard region to live in, no lie. I watched the documentary and the more I watched, the more some of this reminded me of the inner city. Substance abuse, welfare dependency, extreme poverty, low education attainment, bad schools, and big health problems. Food is quite bad too.

Some differences though. In the inner city, alot of people live cheek to jowl. More people around and more people to get into trouble with. Appalachia, on the other hand, a low population density. While violence can still take place, there aren't gangs like there are in the inner city.

Environmental degradation is the same. Appalachia has basically been raped environmentally. Many of the mining operations have done things to mountains you would not believe. In some places, water quality mirrors that of some 3rd world places. I've seen documentaries where people have flushed the toilet and the water turned black, or water came out of the faucet brown.
Also with the drugs and violence as you mention, folks that do get out of poverty and get an education, they simple leave the region. If really high paying jobs and companies are going to relocate to eastern Kentucky, they need to find a viable infrastructure already in place with access to airports and quick and easy transportation, cheap land and also a large pool of educated and qualified workers....really which sadly eastern Kentucky does not have. If they can't find a way to turn that around or make headway, I'm afraid the region will continue to remain backward and stagnated...
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:54 AM
 
53,557 posts, read 48,632,648 times
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Originally Posted by EricOldTime View Post
Also with the drugs and violence as you mention, folks that do get out of poverty and get an education, they simple leave the region. If really high paying jobs and companies are going to relocate to eastern Kentucky, they need to find a viable infrastructure already in place with access to airports and quick and easy transportation, cheap land and also a large pool of educated and qualified workers....really which sadly eastern Kentucky does not have. If they can't find a way to turn that around or make headway, I'm afraid the region will continue to remain backward and stagnated...
Geography does few favors for eastern Kentucky. On one hand, there are decent resources of coal. One the other hand, from what I've seen in the documentaries, infrastructure is quite lacking in many places. It is a catch 22. Wealth from the coal industry has not done much for the region. Wealth has been taken out, and very little put back in. The infrastructure isn't where it should be. The region is quite poor, so there is not much money to build the infrastructure. If the infrastructure isn't available, the companies won't come and no jobs available. On the other hand, the lack of jobs means people will be poorer. And as you said, those who become educated often leave because there is nothing there. Those who are often left behind are there because they fear to leave, or they can't afford to.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:53 PM
 
Location: dead end of a dirt rd (honestly)
65 posts, read 93,585 times
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I see a lot of mention of documentaries and seein this and that on TV, that can be no substitute for actually livin in these areas. None of those tv shows are 100% unbiased, so you have to wake them with a grain of salt like anything on tv these days. I imagine a lot of the violence is drug related and if you don't run in those crowds, you will more then likely never run into it first hand or most of the problems associated with that negative lifestyle.
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