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Old 04-28-2010, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Kentucky
163 posts, read 426,524 times
Reputation: 103

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I grew up in rural Kentucky, but no, not in Harlan. I also have family in Detroit. Neither are ideal, but there are redeeming qualities to both locations.

This Harlan vs Detroit debate on this thread really sounds like an insider vs. outsider debate. Or the "us vs them" duality that often exists in rural areas.

UKUKUK, it seems that your perceptions of rural Kentucky stem from an outsider perspective, as is often the case when such cultures are criticized for their "backwards" ways. I must admit, I'm slightly confused about your apparent association to the area. You stated that you lived there for "10+ years" yet you also only attended school there for your freshman year? And you still consider it to be your hometown? Even though you are "over Harlan"? I can't help but wonder if your perspective stems directly from your experiences there, which seem to be quite different from the experiences of the "typical" Harlan resident.

Again, I'm not a Harlan native but utilizing my own experiences with generational rural poverty, the overall rural KY culture and the opinions expressed here, I would be willing to guess that other Harlan residents' values are somewhat different from your own. Long-time Harlan residents, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm hearing the importance of family and social networks that often go back generations... ties to the land that is not readily understood by those who have not fertilized the ground with their own blood, sweat and tears... a closeness, a feeling of community that can not be found in other locations (after all, where else can you go that the cashier at Wal-Mart went to school with your mom's sister and recognized your last name?).

It's unfortunate that outsiders don't recognize or understand these aspects of rural life. But perhaps part of that is because of the very nature of that lifestyle. The tight-knit community, while beneficial to those inside that network, is not usually welcoming to outsiders. Especially those who present with different values, beliefs and cultures. This is makes it that much more difficult for the rural communities to be understood by those outsiders that then lie down harsh criticism and judgment.

A little bit of tolerance, acceptance and understanding on the parts of everyone would go a long way towards building bridges that could be used to strengthen our communities and our country as a whole.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Mooresville NC
13 posts, read 26,189 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by notthatgirl View Post
I grew up in rural Kentucky, but no, not in Harlan. I also have family in Detroit. Neither are ideal, but there are redeeming qualities to both locations.

This Harlan vs Detroit debate on this thread really sounds like an insider vs. outsider debate. Or the "us vs them" duality that often exists in rural areas.

UKUKUK, it seems that your perceptions of rural Kentucky stem from an outsider perspective, as is often the case when such cultures are criticized for their "backwards" ways. I must admit, I'm slightly confused about your apparent association to the area. You stated that you lived there for "10+ years" yet you also only attended school there for your freshman year? And you still consider it to be your hometown? Even though you are "over Harlan"? I can't help but wonder if your perspective stems directly from your experiences there, which seem to be quite different from the experiences of the "typical" Harlan resident.

Again, I'm not a Harlan native but utilizing my own experiences with generational rural poverty, the overall rural KY culture and the opinions expressed here, I would be willing to guess that other Harlan residents' values are somewhat different from your own. Long-time Harlan residents, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm hearing the importance of family and social networks that often go back generations... ties to the land that is not readily understood by those who have not fertilized the ground with their own blood, sweat and tears... a closeness, a feeling of community that can not be found in other locations (after all, where else can you go that the cashier at Wal-Mart went to school with your mom's sister and recognized your last name?).

It's unfortunate that outsiders don't recognize or understand these aspects of rural life. But perhaps part of that is because of the very nature of that lifestyle. The tight-knit community, while beneficial to those inside that network, is not usually welcoming to outsiders. Especially those who present with different values, beliefs and cultures. This is makes it that much more difficult for the rural communities to be understood by those outsiders that then lie down harsh criticism and judgment.

A little bit of tolerance, acceptance and understanding on the parts of everyone would go a long way towards building bridges that could be used to strengthen our communities and our country as a whole.
I tried to explain this many times over to this UKUKUK person however each time I was met with more insulting diatribes of my heritage of ignorance. It simply means that what you said is very true. My husband is from Manchester and while I am not from there I have always been accepted willingly by that community. Maybe my southeastern Kentucky heritage made me uniquely able to understand their people as a similar people. I am educated and perhaps a bit more than I need to be however that simple lifestyle sticks with me throughout life rather than being "over it" I tend to appreciate what I learned as a part of me going forward in my life. I use this mentality to connect with others who I live near in NC now. I do understand that I am unique having grown up in Harlan for most of my youth only moving to Naples Fl in high school. I have lived in Amish Pennsylvania as well as Vermont and Owensboro, KY now resting in Mooresville NC. All varied cultures but with some simple aspects to their cultural backgrounds. This is just my experiences not all people are open enough to have had those cultural experiences.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:15 PM
 
688 posts, read 1,482,522 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by tibor75 View Post
Comical. Misrepresented? Eastern Kentucky is full of the the ignorant and clueless. The truth hurts...painfully.
Another snivelling little smarmy jerk. If ya' don't like East Kentucky, simply stay the hell out. Anything positive to add, SUNSHINE?
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:19 PM
 
688 posts, read 1,482,522 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKUKUK View Post
Obviously you've never been to downtown Detroit. I was just there a week or two ago. They're renovating the entire area, and as much as many people hate to hear it, the worst of times are over.

Also, I lived below the poverty level in Harlan.

What did my family do? We moved. Sometimes you have to suck it up and leave family behind. How they became poor? The same way all of Appalachia became poor.

Also, Detroit and Wayne county and almost synonymous. Detroit accounts for 90% of Wayne's population.

Also, Indian Village and Boston Edison are close to downtown, far from the outer areas. There are places outside of the Lodge corridor I'd love to buy some property in, even.

As for the abandoned areas... No, they're abandoned.

How would I know? I've BEEN THERE.

But the difference is that inner city poverty stricken individuals, at least in the area I have spent a LOT of time in, AKA the city of Detroit west of Mack, are making a lot of progress.

The people are Harlan do not WANT to change. It shows because they are NOT changing. There's the difference.


Again: Say one positive thing about Harlan and what they are doing to improve their position?
I can say something that has improved their position... a condescending smarmy marmy like you doesn't live there now.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:23 PM
 
688 posts, read 1,482,522 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlangirl View Post
I tried to explain this many times over to this UKUKUK person however each time I was met with more insulting diatribes of my heritage of ignorance. It simply means that what you said is very true. My husband is from Manchester and while I am not from there I have always been accepted willingly by that community. Maybe my southeastern Kentucky heritage made me uniquely able to understand their people as a similar people. I am educated and perhaps a bit more than I need to be however that simple lifestyle sticks with me throughout life rather than being "over it" I tend to appreciate what I learned as a part of me going forward in my life. I use this mentality to connect with others who I live near in NC now. I do understand that I am unique having grown up in Harlan for most of my youth only moving to Naples Fl in high school. I have lived in Amish Pennsylvania as well as Vermont and Owensboro, KY now resting in Mooresville NC. All varied cultures but with some simple aspects to their cultural backgrounds. This is just my experiences not all people are open enough to have had those cultural experiences.
This UKUKUK (or YucKYuckYuck) sounds to me like some frat brat that went hog wild when he was away at school for first time away from home, whether Harlan, Detroit, TImbuktu, or wherever. Don't let some snivelling condescending jerk like that make you feel belittled. Remember, this is only a forum anyway.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:34 PM
 
688 posts, read 1,482,522 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKUKUK View Post
I'm not conservative either. I don't think that being a republican or having a weapon makes you ignorant. I know that Harlan county is a laughable place with no means of supporting itself in the future. There is not a way to fix Harlan. There is nothing there one cannot find in more accessible places with a better labor pool, no incentive for ANY business to EVER establish itself there.

I agree, you shouldn't have to fight. You should swallow your pride and move somewhere with opportunities. Hell, at least with a degree you can get a job in Detroit.
I've travelled to 10 other countries and all 50 states, and I can honestly tell you that whatever is wrong with Harlan, real or perceived, is certainly no worse than Detroit, and sunshine, you certainly don't impress me with your condescending crap. I'm not from Harlan, but from another unnamed county in Eastern Ky., and am damn proud of my heritage, and not impressed by little frat-boy sounding b.s. on how bad the "poor ignorant redneck hillbilly crackers" are. And that's the bottom line, sunshine.
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:44 PM
 
688 posts, read 1,482,522 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKUKUK View Post
Harlan is an absolute ****hole, to say the least. I've been to the worst parts of Detroit and Harlan takes the cake in term of decline and general ugliness. Not only that, but the accent of Harlan is simply a mash of grunts and groans thrown over a very deep uncomprehendable southern accent with a complete lack of enunciation.

How would I know? I lived there for 10+ years.




(Someone lived in that from 94-09)

I will mention that education is top notch though with TWO over my would-be graduating class of 100 something going to COMMUNITY COLLEGE and dropping out!

That's some top notch learnin', thar.
Are we supposed to be impressed by your worthless dissing of Harlan County? I guess you were part of the "decline and general ugliness" cause you lived there 10 plus years. WHATEVER.
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:17 AM
 
688 posts, read 1,482,522 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKUKUK View Post
Hardly.

Wayne County-Detroit has a far higher average income, a far higher level of education, and all of those abandoned, run down neighborhoods you're seeing are just that... ABANDONED.



Perhaps you're thinking of this?






Or this?

But as I said. Harlanites are among the poorest of the poor in America, and they have no desire to do good things. They are content with being stuck in the vicious cycle of drugs, poverty, and backwardsness (defined, by me, as the "I'M REDNECK AND PROUD" type). They must realize that hope and change will not come to them from anyone but themselves.

Really though, the only change they'll ever be able to achieve is if they leave.

Tell me one way in which Harlan can overcome the massive set of problems it has.
If heaven ain't a lot like Detroit, I don't wanna go. If heaven ain't a lot like Detroit, I'd just as soon stay home. If it ain't got no 8 mile, like they do up in the D, just send me to hell or Salt Lake City, it would be about the same to me. NOT. Just being a smarty to the other smarty on here.
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Old 05-05-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
295 posts, read 968,786 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxpwas View Post
I can say something that has improved their position... a condescending smarmy marmy like you doesn't live there now.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



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Old 05-07-2010, 09:04 AM
 
Location: The Lakes
2,368 posts, read 5,082,312 times
Reputation: 1141
Still doesn't change the fact that the lot of Harlan is poor, uneducated, and the VAST majority are caught up in the drug trade.

I can tell you're all easily offended by the truth but the outside world asks for more out of people, hence why you'll likely never make it out.

Maybe you're just bitter?

Either way, prove to me that Harlan is a nice place by any measure.

Prove it.

Prove it doesn't have an extreme drug problem, public corruption, horrid education system, and just a general lack of well being.



Here are the exact figures from the SCDR on well being:
AHIP's Bridge for Well-Being, Health, and Fitness (http://www.ahiphiwire.org/WellBeing/ - broken link)
Type in any 5th district zip code to find them.

You'll find that eastern Kentucky is literally THE worst place to live in America with being 435/435 on some categories, and still horrid on every other one.
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