I finally got the chance to fly out of barkley...my thoughts (Louisville: 2015, transfer)

[Austin8868]

Originally Posted by BLS2753

The airport has suitable service for population size. Nobody's saying it is going to become a fortress hub for United.

Any time an airline has left Paducah, it has been because of industry and/or national political issues, not local passenger volume. This is not restricted to small airports. St. Louis has seen drastic service reductions since American bought TWA, and gradually dismantled the hub. Same thing is going on in Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, with Delta and USair.

Paducah has faired much better than other similar airports in the region. Owensboro, Marion IL, Cape Girardeau, and Jackson TN, all are left with 9 seat Cessnas for scheduled service. Paducah has gone from 34 seat turboprops to 50 seat jets.

Federal subsidies aside, airlines are still free market entities. If United/Skywest didn't think they could make money in Paducah, they wouldn't have bid on the service. The free market will decide, and 3 months into the new flights, the passenger loads are quite good.

You focus way too much on Paducah within the city limits. You need to think regionally. Do you think the mall area and hospitals prosper on Paducah residents alone? Same thing with the airport.

I thought they flew 150 seat md83's out of Owensboro to Orlando

[BLS2753]

Originally Posted by Austin8868

I thought they flew 150 seat md83's out of Owensboro to Orlando

I forgot about Allegiant. They don't operate daily, and only useful if you're going to Florida. I consider them akin to a tour operator.

But technically you're correct.

[Austin8868]

Originally Posted by BLS2753

I forgot about Allegiant. They don't operate daily, and only useful if you're going to Florida. I consider them akin to a tour operator.

But technically you're correct.

Do they have much people on them? Md83's are pretty big jets and Owensboro is even smaller than than Paducahs airport.

[BLS2753]

Originally Posted by Austin8868

Do they have much people on them? Md83's are pretty big jets and Owensboro is even smaller than than Paducahs airport.

Actually, Owensboro's main runway is 1500 feet longer than Paducah's. Runway length is the determining factor on what size aircraft an airport can handle. You could enplane and deplane passengers in a vacant lot if you wanted too, the terminal building has nothing to do with it. Of course practically, you have to have check-in, security, and waiting areas.

I haven't been to Owensboro's airport in about 35 years. It used to be a stop between Paducah and Louisville on Ozark Airlines. So I really don't know what their terminal is like. Looking at an airport diagram, it doesn't look like much.

I'm not that familiar with the nuts and bolts of Allegiant's operation. I do know that they regularly cease service to certain markets as they see fit. They flew into Marion IL and Mid-America airport east of St. Louis for awhile. They're tied into the tourism industry pretty heavily, and market strictly to the casino and adventure park crowd. Most all their flights go to Orlando or Las Vegas. They're not really an airline for general travel needs.

[Austin8868]

Originally Posted by BLS2753

Actually, Owensboro's main runway is 1500 feet longer than Paducah's. Runway length is the determining factor on what size aircraft an airport can handle. You could enplane and deplane passengers in a vacant lot if you wanted too, the terminal building has nothing to do with it. Of course practically, you have to have check-in, security, and waiting areas.

I haven't been to Owensboro's airport in about 35 years. It used to be a stop between Paducah and Louisville on Ozark Airlines. So I really don't know what their terminal is like. Looking at an airport diagram, it doesn't look like much.

I'm not that familiar with the nuts and bolts of Allegiant's operation. I do know that they regularly cease service to certain markets as they see fit. They flew into Marion IL and Mid-America airport east of St. Louis for awhile. They're tied into the tourism industry pretty heavily, and market strictly to the casino and adventure park crowd. Most all their flights go to Orlando or Las Vegas. They're not really an airline for general travel needs.

Yeah i kind of figured that. You wouldn't happen to have the diagram of Owensboro's airport on the internet would you? I'd like to take a look at it.

[BLS2753]

Originally Posted by Austin8868

Yeah i kind of figured that. You wouldn't happen to have the diagram of Owensboro's airport on the internet would you? I'd like to take a look at it.

Sure. Keep in mind these are for pilots. You're not going to find the blueprints for the terminal building or anything. Buildings are represented by black objects around the ramp areas. You can see how big or small they are. Usually the terminal is labeled as such, but I don't see that for Owensboro:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1005/00707AD.PDF

Paducah, with labels: "General aviation terminal" refers to private aircraft.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1005/00628AD.PDF

And for comparison of extremes, Chicago O'hare:

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1005/00166AD.PDF

Any airport in the U S can be found at airnav.com. It's all free public info. Most of the info requires some level of aviation literacy to understand, but you can gain appreciation for the size and complexity of different airports.

[MichaelBNA]

Originally Posted by Austin8868

Do they have much people on them? Md83's are pretty big jets and Owensboro is even smaller than than Paducahs airport.

Yes, the majority of OWB-Orlando flights go out full. The service between Nashville and Owensboro have also been pretty successful from what I have heard.

I think Paducah service to Nashville would be good personally. Nashville is a Focus City for Southwest Airlines with over 90 daily Southwest Airlines flights (including non-stop flights to Panama City, Florida as well as Branson, Missouri with more on the way), and American and Delta both have very large service levels here. American Airlines' service in Nashville isn't what it was in the early 90's, but it beats most non-hub cities our size hands down. Many in the aviation community consider it a small Domestic Focus City for American Airlines anyway. I think the fine folks of Paducah would find the prices and service out of Nashville to be just fine for their overall average needs. Something must be working here at Nashville because it's approaching 10 million passengers a year now even with the recession fully in place. That's the most this airport has ever served!

Owensboro's terminal is bigger than Paducah's terminal because it used to support multiple daily flights to a handful of cities in the 70's & 80's. It's a bit dated, but for the service they have, and considering the isolation of Owensboro, it does just what it's suppose to do. I think it should be noted that Paducah's service is part of the EAS (Essential Air Service) grant program I believe. That in itself can make it a bit harder to refurbish a terminal because the finances are routed differently than that of an airport that has enough traffic to support service without government grants. If anyone wants to see a pitiful airport, head up the road to Marion, ILL. It's pretty sad, but again, it serves its purpose well.

Here's a photo from last summer of Allegiant Airlines at Owensboro. I was there on behalf of Airways Magazine (I'm a freelance Aviation Photographer for a number of aviation magazines).

Gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/perspectivephotography/ (broken link)

[rxpwas]

As I wrote earlier, the Tri-Cities, Tn. Airport (Johnson City/Kingsport/Bristol) is a very beautiful and user-friendly airport, would like to see more flights in and out of (it serves surpringly large population in Southwest Virginia, Northeast Tenn., Western N.C., and is slightly closer to part of E.Ky. I live than Lexington, Ky. airport. I would love to see more flights in and out of there. I wonder why there is no direct flights to or from there from Nashville?

[BLS2753]

Originally Posted by MichaelBNA

Yes, the majority of OWB-Orlando flights go out full. The service between Nashville and Owensboro have also been pretty successful from what I have heard.

I think Paducah service to Nashville would be good personally. Nashville is a Focus City for Southwest Airlines with over 90 daily flights and American and Delta both have very large service here. American Airlines' service in Nashville isn't what it was in the early 90's, but it beats most non-hub cities our size hands down. Many in the aviation community consider it a small Domestic Focus City for American Airlines anyway. I think the fine folks of Paducah would find the prices and service out of Nashville to be just fine for their overall average needs. Something must be working here at Nashville because it approaching 10 million passengers a year now even with the recession fully in place.

I agree on the Paducah-Nashville service. I don't think the local community is too keen on the single engine Cessna though.

Southwest has long seen the family automobile as it's regional feeder. Any airline feeding Southwest, has to exist on it's own finances, or through Essential Air Service subsidies. Paducah's EAS subsidy is consumed with the Chicago service. Any Nashville service would be strictly on the shoulders of the operator. Paducah has a bigger market than Owensboro, because the proximity of Evansville to Owensboro siphons off passengers.

With the new Chicago service from Paducah, Nashville is only useful for connecting to points south, mainly Florida. Of course, the Paducah market covers about a 50 mile radius, and those further south may find Nashville a better alternative. The new Chicago service is gaining many southern Illinois passengers who have needed, but never had, non-stop Chicago service before.

My opinion is that Skywest will hold a monopoly on Paducah service, making it very difficult for other entrants. Any additional destinations will be flown by Skywest. The most likely additional destination, will be Atlanta, not Nashville.

[BLS2753]

Just as a follow up. It is untrue that Owensboro once had superior service, compared to Paducah.

Pre-deregulation, Delta flew DC-9-30's thru Paducah. Ozark had DC-9's and Fairchild F-27 turboprops.
Destinations were Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, and Memphis, on Delta.
Louisville, St. Louis, and Nashville, on Ozark.

Owensboro was served solely by Ozark to Louisville and Paducah for many years. The service was exclusively F-27's. I believe at one point, Owensboro was served by Eastern, but that was years before my time. Likely in the 1950's.

Keep in mind that pre-deregulation, service was point-to-point. Same plane service with intermediate stops. Hub and spoke didn't exist yet.

Post-deregulation, Paducah always had at least 2 airlines up until 9/11. At one point , they had 3: American Eagle to Nashville, TWA Express to St. Louis, and Northwest Airlink to Memphis.

Excluding the current Allegiant arrangement, I don't recall Owensboro ever having more than 1 airline at a time serving their airport. Carriers have moved in and out of Owensboro with great frequency since deregulation. Some might have overlapped.

Without getting into historical statistics on passenger volume, the best way to compare Owensboro and Paducah is by looking at the old Ozark over about a 20 year timeframe, from 1960-80. Ozark was evolving as an airline, and upgrades to their fleet happened regularly. From DC-3's to Martin 404's, then the F-27 turboprops, then DC-9's. The significance of a market could be determined by who got the newer airplanes first. Paducah always got the newer airplanes before Owensboro did.