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Old 07-12-2009, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Johnson City, TN
295 posts, read 668,534 times
Reputation: 173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
You are correct, Northern Lights, in regards to the fact it takes a lot of fuel to grow corn.

However, if all ethanol plants closed today, there still would be a lot of corn grown anyways and they would be exporting it. {Thank goodness we still export something}

I believe the only true way to judge the extra additional fuel used would be to estimate how many less acres woould be planted to corn if ethanol plants closed.

Remember, if the ethanol plants close and the corn farmer still plants the same # of acres to corn as when he sold to the ethanol plant and the corn gets sold for export--------------we really lose out on fuel consumption.

I believe a person considering buying an E-85 car should be doing it for one reason---------reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

He should not consider buying it to save money as he won't.
I'm afraid I don't quite follow you on a few points.
Yes, American farmers would still be growing corn [possibly just not as much]. Yes, Farmers would be selling corn, which gets exported and making money to people in other countries who rely on the American breadbasket. Our subsidizing farmers growing corn to burn as fuel when it doesn't produce as much energy doesn't make sense to me. Maybe if we had no more oil of are own within the boundaries and limits of the United States...but...we still do. My point was we seem to be converting food into fuel and fuel into food [as used for the making of Ammonia, which gets used to make ammonium nitrate fertilizer]. It would seem not only easier and more direct but possibly more efficient to eat our corn and drill our own oil and natural gas to use for energy. But that's just the way I see it. You're mileage may vary.

Last edited by NorthernLights; 07-12-2009 at 07:54 PM..
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:09 AM
 
5 posts, read 19,212 times
Reputation: 16
Default Pure Gas

Its out there you just have to dig!Several reponses to my similar request.I have found two Marathons in Nashville with gas/gas.
Tom
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:15 AM
 
5 posts, read 19,212 times
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Default Ethonol & helping to decrease imported oil!

Here's a thought!Why don't we build a few more refineries here and open up the KNOWN easy areas where oil is, like Anwar?Nah, that would be too easy.
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Seattle
6,514 posts, read 14,776,331 times
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Some of us aren't receptive to the idea of opening up ANWAR to oil drilling. We do share this planet with hundreds of thousands of other plants and animals.
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Old 07-29-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Gray, TN
2,163 posts, read 3,964,106 times
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The drilling could easily be done in a responsible manner. Heck, we have thousands of wells in the hurricane prone Gulf of Mexico. We absolutely should be able to drill in ANWAR. And sorry in advance to the mods as the thread strays way off topic.
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Old 07-29-2009, 12:14 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 14,234,530 times
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Just got done filling our lawn tractor,push mower, and an older farm tractor with a 10% ethanol blend ( been doing it for years)

I'm about to get the push mower going and the wife has already started mowing with the lawn tractor.

I can hear it cutting outside my window------it runs smooth as can be on 10% ethanol ( just as it has since we bought it new 5 years ago)
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Old 07-30-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Johnson City, TN
295 posts, read 668,534 times
Reputation: 173
quoting Jabog;
"Some of us aren't receptive to the idea of opening up ANWAR to oil drilling. We do share this planet with hundreds of thousands of other plants and animals. "
************************************************** *********************************
[Then I say to those folks who feel strongly that way they need to do their bit and sell their cars and walk everywhere so there will be enough gas for the rest of us ]

rccrain;

we don't have to worry about potential damage to the Gulf of Mexico from oil rigs. The fertilizer runoff from the Mississippi from the corn fields has already killed it. Look it up.
I certainly am not the last word on environmental issues and because of my education and work experience I truly know that neither me or anyone else really knows for certain the definitive answers concerning our environmental issues but every a--hole out there has a lot of theories [me included]. I wouldn't want to argue with folks like jabog since I only have a graduate degree in environmental science and have worked as an environmental scientist in hazardous waste consulting whereas other "experts" that want to argue with me probably have watched Al's movie, read National Geographic and get the Wildlife Defense Council newsletter so in comparison I am woefully ignorant and misinformed but my research leads me to the conclusion that any benefits to the planet from burning corn alcohol are pretty much wiped out from growing the corn, and the rest of the conversion and distribution issues, especially when you take into account that you have to burn more of it to drive the same distance and that people need to eat corn but can not eat crude oil.
Split atoms, build windmills, build more high mileage vehicles, super insulate our homes, develop better solar cells and ways to store the electricity and the grid it flows through but just eat the corn...don't convert it into fuel.
Anyone who tries to sell you on easy fixes and alternatives to the way we generate energy in my opinion is over simplifying a very, very complex subject that is very hard to determine if one way of doing things is truly any better for the environment than another is when you fully analyze the whole process from Alpha to Omega/cradle to grave. Sometimes and seemingly contradictory the way we already do many things turns out to be the least damaging way of doing things. I still feel the biggest focus should be on doing everything in every way possible to reduce the energy needed to run things, heat things, power things, etc. But again, I'm just another ( * ) with an opinion.
As to the original post I saw a Val-u-gas or Valu-Save over on the Blountville side of Bristol that had a sign out front advertising 100 % "dino fuel" as we used to say.

Last edited by NorthernLights; 07-30-2009 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Gray, TN
2,163 posts, read 3,964,106 times
Reputation: 911
"Split atoms, build windmills, build more high mileage vehicles, super insulate our homes, develop better solar cells and ways to store the electricity and the grid it flows through but just eat the corn...don't convert it into fuel." - NL

Nail meet hammer.

I think the TriCities area would be perfect for a major nuclear power plant. Rivers, land, a university, NFS, and we need these type of jobs.
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Old 07-30-2009, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Johnson City, TN
295 posts, read 668,534 times
Reputation: 173
"Nail meet Hammer"

How flattering RC. Thanks. I believe we have to remain open to, and develop as many alternative fuels/energy sources but conservation methods will yield the most immediate offset to our energy needs and nuclear could yield the most immediate clearing of the air whether you're worried about CO2, NOX and SOX, acid rain, lions tigers bears...whatever. Nuke produces pretty much nothing but a little steam. The only energy sources we have that work 24/7 rain and shine and no wind to my knowledge are hydro, burning fossil, and nuke. Everything else is not as reliable but all developed together should be the answer to having to just burn so much coal which is arguably the dirtiest method [pity, as we have so much of it available]. So whether you believe mankind is the source of climate change or not nobody can really argue that coal doesn't produce a huge amount of particulate pollution and multiple other pollutants that cause a number of bad chemical reactions in the upper atmosphere which doesn't do us or the bugs and bunnies any good. Nuke produces very toxic waste but compared to how much coal would have to be burned for the same kWh you really have to take in to consideration that coal is still a whole lot worse. Coal dumps multiple trainloads of multiple pollutants/irritants into the air whereas nuke produces about pickup truck load of nasty stuff. I also read in one study about five or ten years ago that burning coal releases more radioactive material into the air [if memory serves right; in the form of Cesium and Thorium that is locked inside a lot of coal] than all nuclear power plants combined. Chernobyl aside, a form of reactor that would not be built anywhere else in the world today but that the Soviets were q---r for, those RBMK designed reactors that were a china syndrome looking for a place to happen. Still, nuke and the recycling of the spent fuel, needs to be pursued VERY thoughtfully but we've learned an awful since they designed and built TMI over 35 years ago in 1974. I hope people with a knee jerk reaction will do some open minded research, meaning don't look up nuclear power on the Sierra Club or Mother Jones website while you're rolling joints and tie-dying T-shirts to sell at the next Phish concert. But solid and varied sources of scientific analysis. Another thought to keep in mind is that allowing new modern nuclear plants built to the state of the art in nuclear physics is safer than what we're currently doing which is not allowing new ones to be built but recertifying old nuke plants that should probably be shut down...another recipe for nuclear disaster.
Again, our topic digresses from City Data forum but let me say this, in an attempt to tie it all back in to the original post on ethanol fuels that in my opinion, there has only ever been one reason to turn Corn into alcohol in Northeast TN and it wasn't for burning in our cars.
"...that's why all those folks on Rocky Top drink their corn from a jar."

Last edited by NorthernLights; 07-30-2009 at 03:46 PM..
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Old 07-30-2009, 06:32 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 14,234,530 times
Reputation: 8189
Much corn grown in NE TN ?
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