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Old 09-29-2009, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Beautiful East TN!!
7,281 posts, read 19,584,254 times
Reputation: 2761

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-faf View Post
For the sake of full disclosure, I am an Obama supporter and did not see the products for sale. The fact that the President is an African-American makes this issue dicey. Sure, free speech is important, and this country has a long history of politician bashing. Cartoons in newspapers have been around forever. But free speech does not include overt racism, as it should be. I don't know if this vendor sold the image of Obama portrayed as a witch doctor in opposition to health care reform, but even conservative Republicans shunned that message. So, the article doesn't make clear if racism or hate mongering was the reason for the forced exit, if so, I agree with the mall. If it were items portraying the President in an unflattering manner, then the mall obstructed free speech. All that is true whether in a red, blue or "purple" state.

Mark
Why? Was the Bush bashing because of race? It doesn't matter if he is green, purple, or orange. The fact is his is the POTUS. Period. Every POTUS has had criticism, new material for comedians, cartoons and "Anti insert name here." stuff displayed by non supporters of the party......why is Obama so special that it is not allowed with him? To the point where people are loosing their livelihood if they dare not agree with him??
We are still in the USA...right? Did someone amend freedom of speech when we weren't looking? Did the American dream die last night while I was sleeping?
Disclosure- I don't think ANY POTUS should have any "anti" materials out there floating around and displayed. I believe the office should have the respect it deserves, whether I agree with who is there or not.
But no matter what, I am an American and I have my rights and privileges as being such, and am very appreciative of all of them. I don't want them taken away from me nor want to see them taken away from anyone.
This guy was selling a product, people were buying, they took that away from him. Was the guy stitching drugs into these T'shirts or something? Why was he treated as a criminal? (in the sense that he was shut down as if he was doing something illegal.)
Not once did the mall people say he was doing anything against his lease, contractually, the mall is sunk on this one. It was just wrong on the mall's part. I feel very bad for the other stores who lease there, they are about to lose a lot of business.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Gray, TN
2,158 posts, read 3,955,856 times
Reputation: 910
As libertarian as this area is, this move will definitely cost the Mall some sales, and in this economy, that is certainly not advisable.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:23 AM
 
842 posts, read 1,242,345 times
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The mall probably had in the lease that they could terminate at any time. If they wanted to close all the stores and shut the doors, they could. As he is in his right to sell what he wants, the mall is in their right not to allow people to sell within their walls.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Gray, TN
2,158 posts, read 3,955,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-faf View Post
I don't know if this vendor sold the image of Obama portrayed as a witch doctor in opposition to health care reform, but even conservative Republicans shunned that message.

If it were items portraying the President in an unflattering manner, then the mall obstructed free speech. All that is true whether in a red, blue or "purple" state.

Mark
No, I walked by the kiosk recently. There was NOTHING close to containing racism.

The owner even stated that he even turned down some requests and agreed to add pro-Obama displays. He was still evicted.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:42 AM
 
Location: South Yarmouth, MA
140 posts, read 318,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse View Post
Disclosure- I don't think ANY POTUS should have any "anti" materials out there floating around and displayed. I believe the office should have the respect it deserves, whether I agree with who is there or not. .
I guess I don't get it.

Free speech is sacred, but no "anti" materials?

Doesn't matter whether it's Bush or Obama. You're the POTUS, you're going to get the credit, you're going to get the heat.

Criticism of Obama isn't necessarily racist, but it can be. Yes, the office deserves respect. A congressman shouldn't yell "You lie" to the president, whoever it is. Was that racist? That's unclear. Did this vendor in JC sell the "witch doctor" poster, or some other blatantly racist item, I don't know.

Because Obama is black doesn't give him a free pass from criticism. Neither should it be a free pass for a racist, disguised as political free speech.

Mark
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:47 AM
 
Location: South Yarmouth, MA
140 posts, read 318,477 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by rccrain View Post
No, I walked by the kiosk recently. There was NOTHING close to containing racism.

The owner even stated that he even turned down some requests and agreed to add pro-Obama displays. He was still evicted.
Then I agree with you. Sounds like obstruction of free speech to me, and I LIKE Obama.

Mark
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Beautiful East TN!!
7,281 posts, read 19,584,254 times
Reputation: 2761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-faf View Post
I guess I don't get it.

Free speech is sacred, but no "anti" materials?

Doesn't matter whether it's Bush or Obama. You're the POTUS, you're going to get the credit, you're going to get the heat.

Criticism of Obama isn't necessarily racist, but it can be. Yes, the office deserves respect. A congressman shouldn't yell "You lie" to the president, whoever it is. Was that racist? That's unclear. Did this vendor in JC sell the "witch doctor" poster, or some other blatantly racist item, I don't know.

Because Obama is black doesn't give him a free pass from criticism. Neither should it be a free pass for a racist, disguised as political free speech.

Mark
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I was just giving my opinion there. meaning if it was up to me I would make it just plain wrong to be blatantly displaying anti president stuff on you car, house, clothes, whatever. Not saying you can't disagree but come on, have some respect...kwim? I also personally think the USA flag plus any state flags should be the only ones flown in the US, but that is me, coming from an American loving, troops supporting point of view. However I know I can not have my cake and eat it to and freedom of speech is what it is and accept it.
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: South Yarmouth, MA
140 posts, read 318,477 times
Reputation: 136
Freedom of speech is easy when the speaker agrees with you. When the speaker is obviously an idiot is when it's hard. That means if the KKK walks down my street wearing white robes, I don't like it, but it's their right. If these same people set buildings on fire, then they're criminals and should go to jail.

Freedom of speech in America is worthless if we can't criticize the people with the power, whether liberal or conservative.

My two cents.

Mark
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle
6,514 posts, read 14,764,025 times
Reputation: 2841
Quote:
There was no issues at all with Bush bashing material being sold and there was a crap load of it. I am sorry, you don't have to like the guy or his politics, but this is the guy who had to deal with the fall out of 9-11, and seeing as there was not another American casualty due to terrorist attacks after that one day, I personally think that one fact alone should have alloted for more respect, but it didn't. There was still all kinds of anti Bush stuff around and for sale. Why is Obama special that anti him stuff is being required to be shut down? The JC Mall just stuck a huge nail in it's coffin.
One big difference is that Bush was a moron. The media agreed, the public agreed. Anti-Bush material was fitting right in the concentration gradient.

Anti-Obama material, while perhaps filling a minor niche market in the absurdly fundamentally conservative market in the South, is definitely against the concentration gradient.

I can't see this hurting the mall that much. I've not even talked to many people who've heard this story, despite it going national. The media's really going to fan the flame (while stories like the horrible double-homicide last year in Knoxville remain obscured) on this one, guys.

Fact is, the contract probably says for kiosks, the mall can terminate at any time for any reason. That's what they chose to do.

As for me, I went to Forever 21 and The Gap today, and no qualms about it.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Beautiful East TN!!
7,281 posts, read 19,584,254 times
Reputation: 2761
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabogitlu View Post
One big difference is that Bush was a moron. The media agreed, the public agreed. Anti-Bush material was fitting right in the concentration gradient.

Anti-Obama material, while perhaps filling a minor niche market in the absurdly fundamentally conservative market in the South, is definitely against the concentration gradient.

OK, I understand your point. Continuing on that thought, I'd like pose this question then: If a mall kiosk decided to sell items that were only related to Muslim and Jewish religions when the majority of the population agrees with Christianity it would be ok to shut them down?

On the flip side, if the owner of the mall is Buddhist and shut down any store or kiosk that sold any Christian type item, would that be ok only because the majority of thought is Christian?

Personal views and opinions should not come into play in such a public commercial place.

This comes down to what is in the Kiosk rental contract. If there wasn't anything in the contract that controlled content of sale items, the mall is in the wrong.
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