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Old 09-29-2009, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
2,501 posts, read 7,092,199 times
Reputation: 826

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rccrain View Post
Just told the mall how I feel about it and that I'll likely make Christmas purchases elsewhere this Fall. This is how capitalism works.

Welcome to The Mall at Johnson City Contact Us
Thanks for the link....I am doing the same thing - letting them know how wrong that is in a free society.
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Old 09-29-2009, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
2,501 posts, read 7,092,199 times
Reputation: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbmouse View Post
Why? Was the Bush bashing because of race? It doesn't matter if he is green, purple, or orange. The fact is his is the POTUS. Period. Every POTUS has had criticism, new material for comedians, cartoons and "Anti insert name here." stuff displayed by non supporters of the party......why is Obama so special that it is not allowed with him? To the point where people are loosing their livelihood if they dare not agree with him??
We are still in the USA...right? Did someone amend freedom of speech when we weren't looking? Did the American dream die last night while I was sleeping?
Disclosure- I don't think ANY POTUS should have any "anti" materials out there floating around and displayed. I believe the office should have the respect it deserves, whether I agree with who is there or not.
But no matter what, I am an American and I have my rights and privileges as being such, and am very appreciative of all of them. I don't want them taken away from me nor want to see them taken away from anyone.
This guy was selling a product, people were buying, they took that away from him. Was the guy stitching drugs into these T'shirts or something? Why was he treated as a criminal? (in the sense that he was shut down as if he was doing something illegal.)
Not once did the mall people say he was doing anything against his lease, contractually, the mall is sunk on this one. It was just wrong on the mall's part. I feel very bad for the other stores who lease there, they are about to lose a lot of business.
I agree wholeheartedly with your post....you took the words right out of my mouth.
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
606 posts, read 1,564,463 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljay42 View Post
That said, I wonder why the mall thinks it their responsibility to tell a vendor that they need to add inventory so they "stay balanced"?
For the same reason they don't allow a store that markets anti-Christian items:

(1) It's insulting and hateful
(2) It's bad for business
(3) It lowers the value of nearby properties owned by the Mall

The comparison to Spencer Gifts is off-point because Spencer Gifts isn't solely dedicated to insulting a group, person, or organization. If Spencer Gifts sold a few items making fun of the President, I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow, but an entire store dedicated to insulting a group of people is just distasteful and bad for business --- even if it happens to be targeted at a Democratic President in an extremely Republican region.
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Old 09-29-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
606 posts, read 1,564,463 times
Reputation: 448
Also, the arguments equating this with "free speech" are well-off base. The JC Mall is a private entity; it's stores act as representatives to the company in a sense. The JC Mall has no obligation to have "representatives" who disparage certain groups or people.

Saying they can't evict them because of "free speech" is like saying a business owner couldn't fire an employee who cursed out every customer with opposing viewpoints.

You have the "right to free speech." You don't have the right to force private actors to give you a venue to champion your views.

My only question is why the JC Mall allowed the company to obtain space to begin with. I could possibly see a strip-mall type environment allowing this, but the JC Mall is an indoor mall and they should realize that other patrons might be put off by having something like this right outside their storefront.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Beautiful East TN!!
7,281 posts, read 19,598,481 times
Reputation: 2765
It is my understanding that this guy has had the Kiosk for a while, sold T'Shirt, Mugs, bumper stickers and such. It was also a printing service on these things and you could have anything you wanted printed on any of the blank products he sold. He has stated that he had several requests for these prints of these anti Obama type items. He made some duplicates of the special orders and displayed the duplicates. The Anti Obama items became 60% of his sales. Supply and demand. He was offering what was selling. Said in one article that he respects the office of president, he was just offering what was selling. What he is most upset with is the way the Mall handled it. No 30 day eviction notice or anything, just handed a documentation that stated he had the last half of that day to leave.
I can attest that unless it was in his original lease that the mall had the right to do that, without a 30 day notice, that this is more of a contractual issue than anything.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:03 PM
 
16,697 posts, read 16,357,556 times
Reputation: 10201
Quote:
jabogitlu; One big difference is that Bush was a moron.
That was the opinion of many, not the opinion of many others.

Quote:
The media agreed,
The media? I'm not so sure the old NY/CA media types really matter in the new world of global information.

Quote:
the public agreed
Again, many did share that opinion, many did not.

By the way, what objective means is used to make the accusation of being "a moron" a fact?

Quote:
Anti-Bush material was fitting right in the concentration gradient.

Anti-Obama material, while perhaps filling a minor niche market in the absurdly fundamentally conservative market in the South, is definitely against the concentration gradient.
CliffsNotes re "concentration gradient": Anti-Bush - Good; Anti-Obama - Bad.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:03 AM
 
426 posts, read 1,160,425 times
Reputation: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakilaTheHun View Post
The comparison to Spencer Gifts is off-point because Spencer Gifts isn't solely dedicated to insulting a group, person, or organization. If Spencer Gifts sold a few items making fun of the President, I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow, but an entire store dedicated to insulting a group of people is just distasteful and bad for business --- even if it happens to be targeted at a Democratic President in an extremely Republican region.
This kiosk wasn't just dedicated to insulting Obama and/or any other group, person or organization.

From the article, "Fuchs’ business, the Graphic Edge, printed slogans and pictures on items such as coffee cups, bumper stickers and T-shirts." The story goes on to list some examples of items available that were not politically related.
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
606 posts, read 1,564,463 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp4ever View Post
This kiosk wasn't just dedicated to insulting Obama and/or any other group, person or organization.

From the article, "Fuchs’ business, the Graphic Edge, printed slogans and pictures on items such as coffee cups, bumper stickers and T-shirts." The story goes on to list some examples of items available that were not politically related.
Then there's no reason to be upset because retail landlords often evict tenants that violate their conditions. Besides, someone has already admitted that 60% of the guy's items were these anti-Obama items.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for this guy. Being evicted has given him the best free publicity he's ever going to get in his life. I'm sure he's already swarming with orders from sympathetic right-wing radio enthusiasts.
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Old 09-30-2009, 05:48 AM
 
383 posts, read 823,813 times
Reputation: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakilaTheHun View Post
because retail landlords often evict tenants that violate their conditions.
And what might those conditions be in this case Hun? The mall already stated on local news broadcasts that he could sell the anti-obama material if he balanced it with some pro-obama material.

That doesn't sound like the Mall took any issue with the material...they just wanted to play CYA when they received a complaint. Can they find a clause in the contract that they will stand on to justify their actions? Probably. So the court will render a decision in due time.

I can' think that the news footage is going to help their case. Either the guy was in breach of contract by selling the material or he wasn't.

As a former kiosk owner (in another world and another time), I can assure you that there was nothing in my agreement that would allow them to do what they did to this guy.

I'm not sticking up for this vendor or his products...president bashing isn't my cup of tea (publicly anyway). But given the local coverage and the statements from the Mall, I'd say they have a problem both in court and in the court of public opinion.

As to your post about christians etc...that post doesn't contain a single valid point in this case. This guys kiosk was not solely dedicated to this product and stores in this market do sell anti-christian material.
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Old 09-30-2009, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Gray, TN
2,164 posts, read 3,966,464 times
Reputation: 911
Mods, if this thread becomes too heated or veers of topic I won't be hurt in the least if it gets locked or moved. Just wanted to get others opinions, and so far it's been an interesting discussion.
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