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Old 10-07-2009, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Beautiful East TN!!
7,281 posts, read 19,595,241 times
Reputation: 2764

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Thanks for the article Tom, and glad you stopped by the Tri-Cities forum, sit a while and enjoy the conversations.
The main difference I see between the two different kiosk owners is that the one in NC had notice that his lease was not going to be renewed. He can claim it was because of his products, but the fact is, a landlord can choose to not renew a lease for any reason or no reason at all, no harm, no foul.You know that is a possibility when you sign any lease. They also gave him an over 10 day notice (basing this on the date of the article). The mall never claimed it was for opposing views of any kind was the reason his lease was not going to be renewed.
In the case of JC mall, the management told the kiosk owner they were evicting him because of the product he sold was against their personal political views and gave him less than a full day to pack up and leave. The JC mall not only did not honor their own lease terms (assuming they are standard commercial lease terms here.) but broke contractual law by giving no notice and no lawful reason. It was all personal views and they even stated so to the reporters.
You're right, it is shocking that here in JC, a more of a live and let live kind of place would cause such an uproar over political views. I was shocked.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,495 posts, read 24,589,657 times
Reputation: 8858
FindLaw | Cases and Codes

They have a right as landlords as per the Supreme Court of the United States; its a black and white statute and should not be censored.This is a legal statute, not some persons opinion.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:29 PM
 
383 posts, read 823,662 times
Reputation: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamofmonterey View Post
FindLaw | Cases and Codes

They have a right as landlords as per the Supreme Court of the United States; its a black and white statute and should not be censored.This is a legal statute, not some persons opinion.
I'm not an attorney but that seems like a silly case to put forth as proof of your point. A jigsaw puzzle scenario with leases, sub-leases, quit claim deeds on property adjacent to the mall, etc... 101 scenarios that in no way match the simplicity of the situation being discussed here.

Also, maybe I missed it but where is the Supreme Court in that decision? Looks like Massachusetts Court to me. (Besides, I've been to Methuen and I'd want out of any land/lease agreement in that area - it's like a mini detroit )


Edit to add: Here's the main thrust of the case:

When a prime lease is terminated (or otherwise fails) a sublease subordinate to the prime ordinarily terminates (or fails): that is part of the common understanding of "subordinate." Thus if the prime lease suffers forfeiture because the lessee doesn't pay the rent, one expects the sublease to crash with the prime. More generally, where a prime ends in accordance with its terms, express or implied, the sublease has to submit to the same fate: this is expectable and the subtenant cannot fairly complain.


Which of course has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

Last edited by ljay42; 10-07-2009 at 01:35 PM.. Reason: info
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:10 AM
 
383 posts, read 823,662 times
Reputation: 213
Well there you go. If the vendor had just held out a few more days he could have sold Pres. Obama Nobel Peace Prize Winner bumper stickers to balance things out just like the mall wanted.

(thought this thread could use some fresh juice to get things kicking again )


http://www.roguefood.com/forums/uploads/1254589114/med_gallery_2122_1_4902.gif (broken link)
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:49 AM
 
383 posts, read 823,662 times
Reputation: 213
Ok, here's the final. Hopefully the vendor will be fair and balanced by adding this pro Pres. Obama bumper sticker to his kiosk and we can all be happy.

http://www.roguefood.com/forums/uploads/1254589114/med_gallery_2122_1_17152.gif (broken link)
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Johnson City, TN
295 posts, read 668,534 times
Reputation: 173
Amazing! I missed all this as I've been out of town. When i first moved here two years ago from Baltimore area, I was shocked at the racial klan type t-shirts that were openly available at the flea market southwest of Jonesborough but, it was one zany guy in one booth/tent at a flea market so I figured what the H--L, don't agree with him? then move on, but, I didn't feel the need to take him to court for catering to those folks who might enjoy the apparel he's selling no matter how offensive I found it. I was shocked to see it, but, free speech, there it was. Blatant, racial, anti-black t-shirts, etc.
I personally hold more right wing beliefs myself, don't think "W" was the greatest potus in my lifetime by a long shot, disagreed with many of his policies/decisions, supported some of his other policies. I could care less about many things right wing Republicans seem to get excited about, for instance; I could give a rat's ass about gays, christianity, abortion, etc., WHO CARES, those people don't hurt me one way or the other. I feel if you don't like/agree with those things...then don't do them. End of debate. Simple to me. Don't like those things...don't do them...America. [right? live and let live, so long as you don't interfere with my enjoyment of life then I won't interfere with your happiness, whatever that may be.]
I feel strongly about the government staying the f--k out of our lives. Less government, more personal freedoms, what I call the old Republican values, take care of yourself and the government will stay out of your way to pursue freedom, happiness, health and wealth....before the Republican party got so aligned with the religious right and the Democrat party got so concerned with providing health care and housing for everyone whether they are working or not by taxing the people who are working. The government should provide roads, schools, jails, provide for the common defense and it would be nice if it prevented any indigent person from dying in the streets [as it were] but by the same token I don't think it's my "right" to be cared for by the government...more a courtesy. It's why I moved to Tennessee from Maryland where the state government is up your wazoo about every, little, freakin' thing you want do in your life/or on your property. That all said then in the last 8 years if people disagreed with "W" and wanted to make fun of him...well, that was their right to free speech. Didn't get me too upset one way or the other. Free Speech, no matter who's the POTUS.
Anyway, IMHO if a mall kicks you out for bashing one president when stores like Spencers, etc. have made a nice buck bashing presidents like Bush then...they may have to be sued. Doesn't seem fair to look the other way when your merchants are bashing W and then get bunged out of shape when they criticize Obama.

Last edited by NorthernLights; 10-14-2009 at 01:22 AM..
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Old 10-15-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
606 posts, read 1,564,194 times
Reputation: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLights View Post
Anyway, IMHO if a mall kicks you out for bashing one president when stores like Spencers, etc. have made a nice buck bashing presidents like Bush then...they may have to be sued. Doesn't seem fair to look the other way when your merchants are bashing W and then get bunged out of shape when they criticize Obama.
I don't think it had much to do with "bashing the President". People bash the President all the time. My guess is that it had more to do with the polarizing influence of the store.

More or less, it's the same reason why Rush Limbaugh isn't going to be able to buy into an NFL franchise --- there are probably NFL owners who are even more conservative than him, but they don't go around trying to stir up controversy. They know that creating a politically polarized environment within their own business would be terrible for their product. Moreover, it could actively cause a revolt amongst their employees (70% of whom are black).

The same is true with the JC Mall. The Rush Limbaughs of the world will cry all day about it being about their politics, and how the evil LIB'RULS control the world. In truth, insulting political nuts are a nuisance to the vast majority of the population --- it doesn't matter if they are left-wing or right-wing. People don't want them around and they lower the value of the nearby properties of the mall. If the mall has to chose between keeping a major tenant and keeping a tiny booth with some guy selling political zealot items, who do you think is going to win out?

I don't care if the "owners" (in this case, the owners are thousands of shareholders) are "liberal" or "conservative" --- they don't want something that is bad for business and draining their profitability around.

My only real objection was the manner in which they evicted this guy. They should've given him longer notice. Perhaps, knowing the tactics of wingnuts, they thought it would be smarter to evict him immediately, but I think they could've handled the situation much better.


From a personal perspective, I don't really care if people are liberal, conservative, socialist, indifferent, or whatever --- most people want the same things anyone and these ideological zealots mostly just fight over inane nonsense anyway. What I really can't stand are all these political demagogues --- the Rush Limbaughs, Bill O'Reilleys, Michael Moores, and Ward Churchills of the world. These people are completely useless and they don't care about the nation. They care about promoting themselves and profiting from it. To equate 'giving political nuttery a mouthpiece' with "free speech" is just insane. They have the right to free speech --- they don't have the right to rent a space in the Mall to do it, if the owners of said Mall object.
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Johnson City, TN
295 posts, read 668,534 times
Reputation: 173
I agree with you up to a point. Especially about the Michael Moore's/Rush Limbaugh's making a buck espousing their respective points of view but it is still free speech which I have the freedom to not listen to Rush's radio show or rent any of Michael's videos. I still have to occasionally hear Rush's voice when I use the scan feature on my radio or walk by Moore's movies when I go to blockbuster. I don't go to the manager of Blockbuster and ask that videos touting political or religious views be removed from the shelves where I may have to see them as I peruse the other titles. Free speech means the right to sell things that say what you feel like saying up to the point of the words being slanderous or outright hateful as I interpret the constitutional right. Whether that may mean a book, a magazine, a T-shirt, a bumper sticker. I would like to see the Mall's rules for renters wherein it states that someone opposed to President Obama's policies selling t-shirts/bumper stickers is more disruptive to the mall's other businesses than people selling all the books, coffee mugs, calendars, t-shirts that 'dissed' Dubya over the last four years. Maybe people are conveniently forgetting how much of that stuff about "Dubya" and about Bill, Hillary and Monica and Ronald Reagan etc, was out there in the stores now that it works against a president they still feel warm and fuzzy about. I'm not going to race over an buy a bumper sticker from the guy, I don't waste my money on political 'nick-nacks', and frankly I suspect he could make much more money with less overhead marketing via the internet but it seems to me if he feels he was wrongfully evicted for doing what other stores in that same Mall have already done i.e. selling products that make political commentary then I would think he has legal recourse for the loss of profits and money he spent on inventory, at least if he would wish to blow the money to fight the mall's lawyers for kicking him out for bashing a president who [for the moment anyway] is still high in popularity. Most POTUS start their terms popular and end them less so, maybe this guys products were simply marketed too far in advance of the popularity polls.

Last edited by NorthernLights; 10-15-2009 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
2,501 posts, read 7,090,812 times
Reputation: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLights View Post
Amazing! I missed all this as I've been out of town. When i first moved here two years ago from Baltimore area, I was shocked at the racial klan type t-shirts that were openly available at the flea market southwest of Jonesborough but, it was one zany guy in one booth/tent at a flea market so I figured what the H--L, don't agree with him? then move on, but, I didn't feel the need to take him to court for catering to those folks who might enjoy the apparel he's selling no matter how offensive I found it. I was shocked to see it, but, free speech, there it was. Blatant, racial, anti-black t-shirts, etc.
I personally hold more right wing beliefs myself, don't think "W" was the greatest potus in my lifetime by a long shot, disagreed with many of his policies/decisions, supported some of his other policies. I could care less about many things right wing Republicans seem to get excited about, for instance; I could give a rat's ass about gays, christianity, abortion, etc., WHO CARES, those people don't hurt me one way or the other. I feel if you don't like/agree with those things...then don't do them. End of debate. Simple to me. Don't like those things...don't do them...America. [right? live and let live, so long as you don't interfere with my enjoyment of life then I won't interfere with your happiness, whatever that may be.]
I feel strongly about the government staying the f--k out of our lives. Less government, more personal freedoms, what I call the old Republican values, take care of yourself and the government will stay out of your way to pursue freedom, happiness, health and wealth....before the Republican party got so aligned with the religious right and the Democrat party got so concerned with providing health care and housing for everyone whether they are working or not by taxing the people who are working. The government should provide roads, schools, jails, provide for the common defense and it would be nice if it prevented any indigent person from dying in the streets [as it were] but by the same token I don't think it's my "right" to be cared for by the government...more a courtesy. It's why I moved to Tennessee from Maryland where the state government is up your wazoo about every, little, freakin' thing you want do in your life/or on your property. That all said then in the last 8 years if people disagreed with "W" and wanted to make fun of him...well, that was their right to free speech. Didn't get me too upset one way or the other. Free Speech, no matter who's the POTUS.
Anyway, IMHO if a mall kicks you out for bashing one president when stores like Spencers, etc. have made a nice buck bashing presidents like Bush then...they may have to be sued. Doesn't seem fair to look the other way when your merchants are bashing W and then get bunged out of shape when they criticize Obama.

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Old 10-19-2009, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Johnstown NY
46 posts, read 75,146 times
Reputation: 14
Default Diddo!

Ditto on the
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