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I agree with you, hik, but it is a problem that runs deep!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster
To gemthornton:
I don't agree. First of all, I was not raised by boomers. I was raised by Depression-era babies.
I've never understood materialism and never will.
I can't argue with that, hiknapster. My parents were depression-era kids themselves. They were frugal and modest their entire lives.
But, this materialism mindset is bigger than most people give it credit for. It started with the Boomers because the end of the war gave new vitality to the economy, there were women in the workplace as a result of being the bread winners during the war, and suddenly the country started a new revolution.
Two wage-earners, opportunity to provide a "better" life for one's family financially, and the children that resulted quickly got used to asking for and often getting anything they wanted. What those children and subsequent generations wanted and couldn't afford went on plastic. Big problem.
I'm glad that you never had that mindset and you are so much better off without it - and your children. But, they are many, many who are trapped by their own wants and it isn't just a single generation, age group, educational level, social, etc. It spans all of these groups and affects the total economy as we can see now with all of the mortgage debt and belly-ups.
I hope that more people wake up to this situation and take responsibility for their individual debt. It could be the tipping point to help their children and those who follow to avoid their poor judgment.
You have every right to question, hiknapster. But, know the facts first, ok?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster
It's none of my business, but I find a 4,500 square-foot house to be excessive.
It is extremely excessive! And, I don't mind you making a point of it, but I thought that I had cleared this up before - at least to my satisfaction.
I didn't buy it and never would, hik! We had 6 weeks to move out of our house in MA, my husband came on ahead while I prepared for the move, and bought a spec house at a throw-away price just so we could avoid another apartment stay while we house-hunted. This was never meant to be permanent and is not our lifestyle. That is why we are so anxious to get moved.
The only time I appreciate having a big house is when all 4 sons, their wives (3 of them) and the 8 grandchildren come to visit twice a year for 8-10 days. We are all together as a family and don't have to put any of them up at a hotel while all 15 are here with us. And, in July when my father-in-law and unmarried brother-in-law come along, there are 19 of us here! Then, a maxi-house comes in handy. But, the next one will be no larger than what 2 people need.
And, you should note, hiknapster, that although having a large house for these 5 years may seem excessive to you, we did not have to get into debt to buy it, have no credit card bills now or ever, live within our means, and will be living in our next house using only the equity from this house - whatever that might be.
So, although we have made our share of mistakes over the years, I think that we have kept a tight lid on being fiscally responsible and teaching our kids that it isn't things that bring you success and happiness, but family, good health, and a clear conscience with oneself and God. We feel quite successful in those areas. Our children now share these values with us.
The generations following the Boomers are considered by many to be even more materialistic than the Boomers. They grew up with material possessions and a seemingly never-ending desire to have more and more of them. It is a way of life so firmly entrenched, they cannot imagine living otherwise. Boomers can imagine living with less, because most of them have. Gen-X and Gen-Y are just as in debt as the Boomers. They are the instant gratification generations; Boomers knew you had to work for what you wanted and were willing to put in the time.
Every generation shared in the housing boom-- and bust. In many areas, the After Boomers were the majority taking the riskiest loans, because they were trying to get in the housing market and wanted more than they could afford. Boomers usually had something to pay down; it was the later generations that were trying to make something out of nothing. It was this unfortunate conflux-- the Boomers trading up and the Afters getting in and moving up that supersized the mess. But the Boomers were also downsizing, turning thoughts to retirement. The Afters picked up the slack.
All of this is a long-winded way of saying I don't think the Boomers alone own this mess that we, as a country and a culture, have gotten ourselves into. I think Gen Jones, Gen-X and Gen-Y contributed their-- our-- fair share and should be held equally accountable. My generation is the catch up generation and in trying so hard to catch up and keep up, we helped push the pursuit of materialism to new highs. We all fueled it; we all fanned it; we all own it.
All those years of Now, Now, Now, More, More, More have taken their toll. The piper must be paid-- just like the Depression Babies knew it would. Digging ourselves out will be easier if we pass the shovel, instead of the blame. JMO.
It doesn't matter where you think this gluttony had its origin or what generation(s) fueled it into the steaming dragon it is today, what matters is what you as an individual are willing to do to put the fire out.
All have contributed in this feeding frenzy and now it is time for it to be over. As I said before our children will learn how to live responsibly or live by paying out 20% interest every month.
The example we set for each of them will have an impact on at least one individual. Put all of those individuals together and you can stop the momentum of this excess and perhaps, we can recover eventually.
Baby-boomers are now in a position where their excessive spending will have to stop or they will be living by the skin of their teeth. As I already said, experience with my friends and family of this generation has shown that they gotten their ducks all in a row for the most part.
There are many out there, I am sure, who are going to be very poor seniors, but I hope that the majority are in the same mode as my husband and I, our siblings, and our boomer friends. We know how to live on what we have without credit and most of us are determined to continue to do just that and leave our children a few bucks someday instead of a pile of debts.
You know where this trend came from? Our depression era parents. They did set a good example. We hope to set the same one for following generations after they wake up to reality, too.
Last edited by gemkeeper; 10-23-2007 at 11:43 AM..
Reason: left out a phrase
It doesn't matter where you think this gluttony had its origin or what generation(s) fueled it into the steaming dragon it is today, what matters is what you as an individual are willing to do to put the fire out.
All have contributed in this feeding frenzy and now it is time for it to be over. As I said before our children will learn how to live responsibly or live by paying out 20% interest every month.
The example we set for each of them will have an impact on at least one individual. Put all of those individuals together and you can stop the momentum of this excess and perhaps, we can recover eventually.
Baby-boomers are now in a position where their excessive spending will have to stop or they will be living by the skin of their teeth. As I already said, experience with my friends and family of this generation has shown that they gotten their ducks all in a row for the most part.
There are many out there, I am sure, who are going to be very poor seniors, but I hope that the majority are in the same mode as my husband and I, our siblings, and our boomer friends. We know how to live on what we have without credit and most of us are determined to continue to do just that and leave our children a few bucks someday instead of a pile of debts.
You know where this trend came from? Our depression era parents. They did set a good example. We hope to set the same one for following generations after they wake up to reality, too.
This and your previous comments about wholesome values and the big house for the big family made good sense to me. A lot of people do get a big house for the once or twice a year visits from all the relatives. I don't know if it has to be huge but I don't think people should feel guilty buying homes to accommodate their returning family even once a year. I think this concept enhances the virtues that we want to carry on and encourage in people. Just "Everything in Moderation" (we wish).... My depression-era parents never did have credit cards...my dad carried a large amount of cash with him and paid for everything including stopping by to pay the electric bill in cash. He hardly ever wrote checks either. The clerks would flip out (Pa always had high electric charges). He left us in the 70s and my mom of 88 years is still with us san credit cards...she never understood the concept. That is another point...children of the Depression era, at least women, seem to live longer...I know several women of friends and relatives in their 80s and some have lived into their 90s. Then my grandmother who Came Over (the big pond) in 1907 or so...she lived to 100.
The generations following the Boomers are considered by many to be even more materialistic than the Boomers. They grew up with material possessions and a seemingly never-ending desire to have more and more of them. It is a way of life so firmly entrenched, they cannot imagine living otherwise. Boomers can imagine living with less, because most of them have. Gen-X and Gen-Y are just as in debt as the Boomers. They are the instant gratification generations; Boomers knew you had to work for what you wanted and were willing to put in the time.
Every generation shared in the housing boom-- and bust. In many areas, the After Boomers were the majority taking the riskiest loans, because they were trying to get in the housing market and wanted more than they could afford. Boomers usually had something to pay down; it was the later generations that were trying to make something out of nothing. It was this unfortunate conflux-- the Boomers trading up and the Afters getting in and moving up that supersized the mess. But the Boomers were also downsizing, turning thoughts to retirement. The Afters picked up the slack.
All of this is a long-winded way of saying I don't think the Boomers alone own this mess that we, as a country and a culture, have gotten ourselves into. I think Gen Jones, Gen-X and Gen-Y contributed their-- our-- fair share and should be held equally accountable. My generation is the catch up generation and in trying so hard to catch up and keep up, we helped push the pursuit of materialism to new highs. We all fueled it; we all fanned it; we all own it.
All those years of Now, Now, Now, More, More, More have taken their toll. The piper must be paid-- just like the Depression Babies knew it would. Digging ourselves out will be easier if we pass the shovel, instead of the blame. JMO.
Good stuff here. And yes, we do and did work hard...early and other boomers. Had something to show for it...could have done it better but at the bare minimum squeeked through with a house. Some don't have a retirement besides the Social Security supplement, some of us don't have a great retirement...some of us don't have too much in the stock market or IRA. Don't think my husband would have his IRA and such if I hadn't shown up. I hope the next bunch is more savvy on Retirement. For all of the excessessive spending many of them do...the next bunch...they do seem to be investors but how much is speculation.
Catndogs, it sounds like you can look forward to living a nice long fruitful life. That is quite a track record for longevity in your family. My family had the same depression era sensibility that your parents had. "What do you need a credit card for if you can afford to pay cash" was my parents' motto.
When I was a youngster my parents put a living room sofa and chair on layaway at a local furniture store. It killed my dad to do it, but it was a good price and we needed it. He would stop by the store every Friday after cashing his paycheck and make a payment. It took 3 months, but he paid it off and it was then delivered. First and last time they ever did that. When my father died this past Spring, my sister and I were clearing things out of our childhood home and we found that payment book with it crumbly browned pages. The two pieces and 2 end tables with lamps cost $250. A lot of money for my parents, but they had it for the next 20 or so years. That layaway was evidently such a monumental event in my dad's life that he saved that payment book to Reliable Furniture Co. for over 50 years.
I think our parents taught us well, Catsndogs, don't you?
My great grandmother lived to be 96 yrs. old and would have a great time telling us about life during the Civil War, her first electric light bulb and telephone. She stayed sharp and active until she died and was a source of great strength to all of her HUGE family. Ahhh, the days when families stayed together through generations. What a joy to have your great grandmother live across the street and two sets of cousins live in the same block as we did.
Times have changed for sure. I appreciate families who still manage that closeness, but for those of us who have to be separated by distance, we certainly are not separated by family love and support. I talk to each of my 4 boys and 3 daughters-in-law every day - and they usually call me, and the grandchildren as often as their parents can nail them down. So, I consider myself fortunate that we can all get together at least twice a year - all of us - what fun! We usually manage 2 or 3 individual family visits during the year with each one of them, as well. A big house does help in that case, but I would never choose a big house myself. We have all squeezed into less than half that space, also, for a week or so and managed to still speak to each other.
Our TN house will probably be about 2500 sf, which to some is still big, but it suits us and our family needs. We'll pack all of the kiddies into a bunk room. Cannot wait to make the big move and not have to vacumn all of these floors anymore!!
Did I get us way off track here? Sorry, folks. Reminiscing does make the future look so much better!
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I agree with you, hik, but it is a problem that runs deep!
You have every right to question, hiknapster. But, know the facts first, ok?
My point exactly, goodbyehollywood.
