[whyhateme]

Originally Posted by unf0rgiven6262

I'm pretty sure minimum wage employees are not holding back soaring inflation. Even though I know you're just joking about it at this point, I will agree to disagree that screwing the workers is a questionable recipe for success to employers and a pain for employees. Take into account the amount of employee theft, employee turnaround and general disloyalty to companies and I don't think you are going to see murdering sprees slightly accommodating pay to a livable wage.

An example of this is Boyd Gaming when they took over Coast Casinos. They screwed the majority of the old Coast employees and their success, or lack of success, is reflected in their decline in business at all those old Coast owned properties. They pay $2+ less an hour than the Coast owner and that was 4-5 years ago!

[bledsoe3]

Originally Posted by clutchcargo777

Yes, don't do anything to stand up for your rights. The economy sucks
for everyone but somehow the employer gets a pass to crap on you.
Your options are to kiss his ass or starve.

At what point do you draw the line?

I sense a serious lack of compassion here.

This is your first post where you tell Davie to he should stand up for his rights and not let his employer crap on him.

Originally Posted by clutchcargo777

I think a lot of you are missing something here. The traditional notion of offering something more to
your employers for more wages is out the window these days. I'm an IT professional with countless
certifications. I've been doing it for almost 30 years. In addition to IT, I am also a communications engineer. I have a spotless career record. My current employer (a huge fortune 100 company) has me doing my normal duties plus warehouse, parts delivery, answering phones and cleaning toilets. For 20% less then I was making last year. Mind you, I'm happy I have a job, but feel bad for the warehouse guy, parts runner and cleaning service people who don't anymore.

Do you think when things get better they will go back to paying me to just do IT? I doubt it.
If you don't see the changes it's just because they haven't hit you yet. They will.

It's easy to sit back and be smug that you aren't a ditch digger, the one thing you have going for you is that when push comes to shove you might
me offered that ditch digging job ahead of the actual ditch diggers... So they can pay you ditch digger wages for whatever profession you actually bring.

Good luck all.

Then you post that you're doing more work and menial tasks for less money and are just happy to have a job.

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by unf0rgiven6262

I'm pretty sure minimum wage employees are not holding back soaring inflation. Even though I know you're just joking about it at this point, I will agree to disagree that screwing the workers is a questionable recipe for success to employers and a pain for employees. Take into account the amount of employee theft, employee turnaround and general disloyalty to companies and I don't think you are going to see murdering sprees slightly accommodating pay to a livable wage.

I'm not sure you're quite getting the conflict in your position-

Higher wages = goodness
Higher prices = badness
Yet
Higher wages = Higher prices

So what is it that you want? Higher wages or lower prices? You don't get to have both. In many industries labor is the highest input cost.

As well, you suggest that "screwing" employees is a questionable recipe for success - presumably, paying minimum wage to employees is screwing them. Yet, you previously pointed out how Walmart has been so successful by keeping prices low.

Originally Posted by unf0rgiven6262

I understand how it currently works. I'm saying that it's bogus. I know it won't change anytime soon and I'm sure workers will continue to get screwed at the expense of keeping prices low. How do you think Walmart is so successful.

So, is paying minimum wage a questionable recipe for success, or did it contribute to Walmart's great success?

[Spraynard Kruger]

Originally Posted by clutchcargo777

I think a lot of you are missing something here. The traditional notion of offering something more to
your employers for more wages is out the window these days. I'm an IT professional with countless
certifications. I've been doing it for almost 30 years. In addition to IT, I am also a communications engineer. I have a spotless career record. My current employer (a huge fortune 100 company) has me doing my normal duties plus warehouse, parts delivery, answering phones and cleaning toilets. For 20% less then I was making last year. Mind you, I'm happy I have a job, but feel bad for the warehouse guy, parts runner and cleaning service people who don't anymore.

Do you think when things get better they will go back to paying me to just do IT? I doubt it.
If you don't see the changes it's just because they haven't hit you yet. They will.

It's easy to sit back and be smug that you aren't a ditch digger, the one thing you have going for you is that when push comes to shove you might
me offered that ditch digging job ahead of the actual ditch diggers... So they can pay you ditch digger wages for whatever profession you actually bring.

Good luck all.

IT and communications engineeer (as in EE or CS major in college engineer)? Someone with your background, providing your skills are relevant, should be making 75K+ a year. Something doesn't add up here. Your core competency is technical and you clean toilets for a fortune 100 company?

There is a difference between getting screwed and just letting people walk all over you. Forgive my being smug, but man, you are getting the shaft or you're not being truthful about your skills.

[clutchcargo777]

Originally Posted by Spraynard Kruger

IT and communications engineeer (as in EE or CS major in college engineer)? Someone with your background, providing your skills are relevant, should be making 75K+ a year. Something doesn't add up here. Your core competency is technical and you clean toilets for a fortune 100 company?

There is a difference between getting screwed and just letting people walk all over you. Forgive my being smug, but man, you are getting the shaft or you're not being truthful about your skills.

That's what I WAS making a year ago. I was approached and asked if I was
a team player and willing to do whatever it took to help the company get
through "the current economic rough spot". I looked around and couldn't
find anything else. I'm still looking, but what do you do when there isn't
anything else? I guess you clean toilets AND do your IT duties.

[clutchcargo777]

Originally Posted by bledsoe3

This is your first post where you tell Davie to he should stand up for his rights and not let his employer crap on him.



Then you post that you're doing more work and menial tasks for less money and are just happy to have a job.

My first post was in response to someone saying take it or leave it. I was illustrating where that path can lead. Everyone has a limit (I hope) to what they will take but the poster I was responding to made it sound (to me) like its totally normal to be increasingly crapped on. I was not giving any specific advise to Davie and his particular situation.

On my 2nd post do you really mean you didn't catch my sarcasm? Yes, the economy is bad enough that cleaning toilets along with your normal tasks is better then the alternative. I'm happy I'm not homeless. I'm certainly not happy with what it's taking to remain that way.

My first comments were general comments on the economy and it's
effects (and possible future effects) in the workplace. My second
comment was specific to my situation in response to someone saying
you only have your lack of skills to blame for low wages.

Context is everything.

[unf0rgiven6262]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

I'm not sure you're quite getting the conflict in your position-

Higher wages = goodness
Higher prices = badness
Yet
Higher wages = Higher prices

So what is it that you want? Higher wages or lower prices? You don't get to have both. In many industries labor is the highest input cost.

As well, you suggest that "screwing" employees is a questionable recipe for success - presumably, paying minimum wage to employees is screwing them. Yet, you previously pointed out how Walmart has been so successful by keeping prices low.So, is paying minimum wage a questionable recipe for success, or did it contribute to Walmart's great success?

Of course it contributed to Walmart's success. It's questionable because Walmart has taken on an extremely negative image and paid out numerous class action lawsuits. At the end of the day, if they had paid their workers fairly they would have actually saved money in all likelihood. I'm sure you would still be advocating that we pay workers below the current cost of living if you lost your great job and had to work minimum wage right?

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by unf0rgiven6262

Of course it contributed to Walmart's success. It's questionable because Walmart has taken on an extremely negative image and paid out numerous class action lawsuits. At the end of the day, if they had paid their workers fairly they would have actually saved money in all likelihood.

I'd say Walmart's recipe for success has worked just fine. They didn't become the world's largest retailer by accident. And how can one retailer eclipse all others when they're burdened with this extremely negative image you speak of?

I'm sure you would still be advocating that we pay workers below the current cost of living if you lost your great job and had to work minimum wage right?

What exactly is the current cost of living? Factory workers in China make a living on $2.5K a year. The minimum wage in Nevada is $15K - $17K a year. So, is the current cost of living $2.5K a year? $17K a year? More? Who gets to decide that?

The labor market is just that, a market. You exchange your services in return for compensation. If the employer can find someone that provides your same services at a lower compensation, they are free to choose the cheaper service provider. Much in the same way you are free to choose your plumber, electrician, mechanic, etc. based on how much they want to charge you for their services. Or, maybe you should be forced to pay your plumber/electrician/mechanic whatever they decide is their current cost of living?

[KidsinVegas]

You're worth what the market will pay. I'm sure that if you would like to make more money you could find another job. It's really that simple. No one makes a person accept and work for a particular wage. Employers are following the law.

[unf0rgiven6262]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

I'd say Walmart's recipe for success has worked just fine. They didn't become the world's largest retailer by accident. And how can one retailer eclipse all others when they're burdened with this extremely negative image you speak of?What exactly is the current cost of living? Factory workers in China make a living on $2.5K a year. The minimum wage in Nevada is $15K - $17K a year. So, is the current cost of living $2.5K a year? $17K a year? More? Who gets to decide that?

The labor market is just that, a market. You exchange your services in return for compensation. If the employer can find someone that provides your same services at a lower compensation, they are free to choose the cheaper service provider. Much in the same way you are free to choose your plumber, electrician, mechanic, etc. based on how much they want to charge you for their services. Or, maybe you should be forced to pay your plumber/electrician/mechanic whatever they decide is their current cost of living?

Walmart has eclipsed all other retailers partially by their ingenuity as well as many shady business practices that have come to light. Despite these things coming to light, most people's priorities are still with finding the lowest price. Which is what Walmart offers.

As many people here have noted, there are many "help wanted" signs in the area for low paying jobs. Many people are more content draining unemployment as it pays better in most cases. Electrician's and plumbers make far more than minimum wage and has no relevance on what I'm saying. I am not against employers hiring people that will work for less. This is a system long held by this country. The only flip side to this is that all the jobs that can go overseas are slowly making that transition. On the most basic level, all I am saying is that minimum wage no longer matches the cost of living today. And yes, you can determine the cost of living in an area quite easily. Given it will be an average amount.