[RecentlyRetired]

Originally Posted by Chest Rockwell

Why should it matter whether or not a teacher's first language is not English? Whether or not they speak fluent English should be the only concern, and I can't believe that the school district, for all of its flaws, would fail to confirm fluency before hiring teachers.

I work as a Software Engineer for a company that employs many people from various parts of the world. Everyone speaks fluent English, but some speak with such heavy accents that it is quite difficult to always understand them; especially if they tend to speak rapidly. I imagine having a foreign born teacher who speaks with a heavy accent could prove to be an extra burden for slower students who are already struggling in difficult subject areas like physics and higher mathematics.

[ParkTwain]

"Fluency" includes accuracy of pronunciation. Sometimes that is not checked for persons entering teaching.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by brosati

I work as a Software Engineer for a company that employs many people from various parts of the world. Everyone speaks fluent English, but some speak with such heavy accents that it is quite difficult to always understand them; especially if they tend to speak rapidly. I imagine having a foreign born teacher who speaks with a heavy accent could prove to be an extra burden for slower students who are already struggling in difficult subject areas like physics and higher mathematics.

I had a Scottish Industrial Designer working in my organization for whom I needed a translator...He spoke English but only the English could dig it.

My mother reports that, when a newly arrived resident of rural Ohio, she discovered that she could not understand her hoosier Ice man. They used notes to communicate.

I had a calculus instructor in college who spoke perfect English and was absolutely indecipherable. However his boards filled with tight spaced equations were absolutely superb teaching aids if you knew a couple of people good at hard math.

Language is funny stuff.

[Charles Wallace]

Originally Posted by Chest Rockwell

Why should it matter whether or not a teacher's first language is not English? Whether or not they speak fluent English should be the only concern, and I can't believe that the school district, for all of its flaws, would fail to confirm fluency before hiring teachers.

Man, I wish I could agree with you, but speaking of the English teachers at the school at which I teach, some of them aren't particularly proficient speakers or writers -- and they're native-born. I'm not talking about the stray typo but about serious grammar problems, spelling problems, punctuation problems, and other issues.

If they're that lax about native speakers, it doesn't inspire confidence in their ability to hire fluent non-native speakers, although I don't think one can solidly draw a conclusion on that score.

[PinkString]

Originally Posted by Charles Wallace

Man, I wish I could agree with you, but speaking of the English teachers at the school at which I teach, some of them aren't particularly proficient speakers or writers -- and they're native-born. I'm not talking about the stray typo but about serious grammar problems, spelling problems, punctuation problems, and other issues.

Now that would explain the high amount of horrendous spellers in Clark county.

[sheriff]

Originally Posted by Charles Wallace

Man, I wish I could agree with you, but speaking of the English teachers at the school at which I teach, some of them aren't particularly proficient speakers or writers -- and they're native-born. I'm not talking about the stray typo but about serious grammar problems, spelling problems, punctuation problems, and other issues.

If they're that lax about native speakers, it doesn't inspire confidence in their ability to hire fluent non-native speakers, although I don't think one can solidly draw a conclusion on that score.

As America has no official language, why does your perception of spelling and grammar carry any weight?

[Charles Wallace]

Originally Posted by sheriff

As America has no official language, why does your perception of spelling and grammar carry any weight?

Does English have to be America's official language for my perception of spelling and grammar to carry any weight?

[sheriff]

Originally Posted by Charles Wallace

Does English have to be America's official language for my perception of spelling and grammar to carry any weight?

And what would be your reference point? Students and teachers obviously see their view of spelling and grammar as acceptable. Spanish, Ebonics, or English should be given a level playing field if there is no official language.

[Charles Wallace]

Originally Posted by sheriff

And what would be your reference point? Students and teachers obviously see their view of spelling and grammar as acceptable. Spanish, Ebonics, or English should be given a level playing field if there is no official language.

If I were teaching Spanish, I would expect my students to spell Spanish words correctly. If I were teaching Ebonics, I would expect my students to spell Ebonics words correctly, and because I am teaching English, I expect -- surprise! -- my students to spell English words correctly.

Moreover, if you're a teacher -- an English teacher, especially -- one would think it would be incumbent on them to spell and punctuate and use words with a reasonable degree of accuracy. The thing is, I genuinely don't believe that having an official language would change this problem in any way, because as I said in my PP, the language-misusers are native speakers of English and do not speak Ebonics or any creole or dialect of English. Nope, I think we have to chalk that up to poor hiring standards, actually.

[sheriff]

CW: I admire your intentions, but the deteriorization of language and culture are where America is headed. While foundations are important in my opinion, the bottom line today is,--- can you communicate? As the number of individuals that no longer abide by spelling and grammar norms increase, the relevance of said rules decrease.