[logline]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

I'm saying that if it isn't constructed from the get go, it will never be constructed. People won't use a rail line that terminates in Victorville. So there won't be any support in the future for spending more money on a rail line that nobody uses.

The more I think about this argument, the more I disagree with it.

First of all, I think they only proposed the first phase of this project to Victorville because it will be shorter/cheaper and therefore more easily approved/funded to get the ball rolling. But everybody in the world knows that Victorville is not a primary city for Vegas visitors. Point taken.

But then I started thinking about the SF Bay Area where I grew up. The BART system there terminated in Daly City for YEARS. Everybody I know complained and thought it was stupid (using the exact same arguments you are using now about Victorville). And lo and behold, that BART train now goes all the way to SFO Airport as demanded by the people. I use it all the time and it's great. (If only we could band together to FIGHT the taxicab lobby and make our own monorail go to the airport the way SF did, huh?) We should put that sucker on a ballot and let the people decide... but I digress...

As rail systems develop and demand/populations grow, it's quite obvious that the Victorville line will be expanded to link with the California High Speed Rail line which connects LA to SF. In fact, that's already part of the plan as explained in the splash page video at DesertXpress. In fact, they mention the same corridor I mentioned in a previous post to link them in Palmdale.

By the way, in my last post I said it looked like the Las Vegas terminal would be opposite Mandalay Bay, but watching the video shows it terminating opposite Bellagio, by the Panorama Towers/Martin.

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by logline

The more I think about this argument, the more I disagree with it.

First of all, I think they only proposed the first phase of this project to Victorville because it will be shorter/cheaper and therefore more easily approved/funded to get the ball rolling. But everybody in the world knows that Victorville is not a primary city for Vegas visitors. Point taken.

But then I started thinking about the SF Bay Area where I grew up. The BART system there terminated in Daly City for YEARS. Everybody I know complained and thought it was stupid (using the exact same arguments you are using now about Victorville). And lo and behold, that BART train now goes all the way to SFO Airport as demanded by the people. I use it all the time and it's great. (If only we could band together to FIGHT the taxicab lobby and make our own monorail go to the airport the way SF did, huh?) We should put that sucker on a ballot and let the people decide... but I digress...

As rail systems develop and demand/populations grow, it's quite obvious that the Victorville line will be expanded to link with the California High Speed Rail line which connects LA to SF. In fact, that's already part of the plan as explained in the splash page video at DesertXpress. In fact, they mention the same corridor I mentioned in a previous post to link them in Palmdale.

By the way, in my last post I said it looked like the Las Vegas terminal would be opposite Mandalay Bay, but watching the video shows it terminating opposite Bellagio, by the Panorama Towers/Martin.

As much as I'd like to see the project succeed, and that it get used. I'm certain that if constructed as planned, nobody will use the line. It will become a laughingstock "bridge to nowhere" boondoggle. And when the time comes to ask for more money to expand the rail line, taxpayers won't want to cough up the funding.

See if you can find more than a handful of people interested in funding an expansion of the monorail to make it useful. It will be the exact same thing with the DesertXpress. An interstate highway linking LV and Phoenix on the other hand would pay for itself in a matter of a few years. And I hate cars and love trains. But people aren't going to use the train unless it is either: 1) Less expensive than driving; 2) Significantly more convenient than driving.

The current plan is neither. As it stands, DesertXpress is a $5 billion hole in the ground. Still better than wasting the money in Afghanistan. But a waste of money all the same.

[dynimagelv]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

They do in the Northeast....about 35 Million us daily....which has grown rapidly since the 1980s. The Current train ridership in most cities has past the 1950 rate.....Interstates are just as expensive to build and need a capacity upgrade every few years as opposed to Rail... There really isn't that strong a car culture in the Coastal Northeastern cities or Mid Atlantic and our towns aren't built around the cars but rather the railroads and Walking....

Last time I looked Las Vegas was WAY west of gnu Jersey and the WEST IS an automobilecentric culture.

[aggrofish]

Mark my words: few, if any, people will drive 1 -1.5 hours to Victorville to jump on a train to Vegas.

[dynimagelv]

and fewer people will get on the train to ride to V'ville then get off and say "Where the F' am I?"

[logline]

You're all correct if that's where the line ends. As I've shown above, Victorville is NOT the final end of the line.

[Ulysses373]

Originally Posted by logline

You're all correct if that's where the line ends. As I've shown above, Victorville is NOT the final end of the line.

But the extension is assuming the CA highspeed rail gets done, and it has just as many problems, if not more, than this line.

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by logline

You're all correct if that's where the line ends. As I've shown above, Victorville is NOT the final end of the line.

And my point is that Victorville IS the final end of the line, unless they they build it all the way to Palmdale or Anaheim the first time around. We absolutely cannot rely on "maybe someday in the future we'll get around to turning this line into something people actually want to use." That would be like spending $5 billion on a football stadium, with the promise that maybe someday the NFL will let Las Vegas have a team.

The end of the line will be wherever it ends when this construction project is finished. This is all we're going to get. Promises to finish the job properly years from now are just lip service. It won't happen.

I've seen this exact scenario play out the same way with the same end result too many times to have any faith that this time it's gonna be different.

We're being railroaded into this project. We'd be better off taking the $5 billion and building a kick-ass water park in Las Vegas. At least that way we'd have a kick-ass water park. Or libraries. Or schools. Anything at all that would spread the money out around the valley.

[dynimagelv]

but Scary Harry will make a BUCKET of $$$$$

[JohnG72]

Scoop is correct. No one in LA is going to use it. Myself and friends are scattered throughout LA...OC, San Gabriel Valley, SFV, Downtown, Westside, Southbay....not a one will be using any train that starts in Victorville.

People exagerate the time it takes to drive from central LA to Las Vegas. They remember that one Memorial Day monday they drove back from Vegas to LA and it took 8 hours and they sat in traffic for forever. It's a bunch of emotional and mental BS. From Downtown at any time thats not rush hour, or a Sunday return, it takes me about 4 hours door to door. If you live out in the IE, cut 45 minutes to an hour off that time(and keep in mind theres well over a million people in the IE). Most of the time, it takes about 2 hours 30 minutes from Victorville to Vegas.

Right now, I fly most of the time. Non peak Southwest flights out of Burbank are $120 round trip, fee and tax inclusive. Toss in $40 for cab to and from my hotel including tip. So it costs me $160 to fly. My car gets 18mpg and I HAVE to use premium. At 270 miles each way that 30 gallons of gas at $4.50/gallon.....$135......So its well worth it to fly.

But flying takes a long time too...generally about 3 and a half hours from my front door until the time the taxi drops me off at my hotel. If gas were half what it is right now, I'd never fly.

Now, I hope everyone posting here gets Scoops point about how NO ONE will use a train that starts in Victorville, and won't use it in LA or OC either unless its cost effective and time effective.

FWIW, the monorail should go from the airport, up Trop, back around behind the Tropicana, and up and down the middle of LV Bl from Mandalay Bay to Downtown. If anyone there in government had any reasonable ethics, that is.