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Old 04-07-2012, 05:39 PM
 
2 posts, read 15,327 times
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I rent out a house in the Rhodes Ranch community. I recently received a notice from the HOA stating that my tenant was involved in a single car accident damaging a light pole and tree. They issued a notice to me wanting me to pay a $500 fee and a $700 fine for the damage done by my tenant. I haven't gone through the CC &R's yet, but I was wondering if they can legally charge me for the actions of my tenant?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:53 PM
 
11,138 posts, read 15,906,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayam View Post
I rent out a house in the Rhodes Ranch community. I recently received a notice from the HOA stating that my tenant was involved in a single car accident damaging a light pole and tree. They issued a notice to me wanting me to pay a $500 fee and a $700 fine for the damage done by my tenant. I haven't gone through the CC &R's yet, but I was wondering if they can legally charge me for the actions of my tenant?
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance
I can't answer specifically for Rhodes Ranch, but that's the way Spanish Trail works. I am responsible for any damage or any citations written against a guest I authorize in through the gates. IOW, if one of my guests is caught speeding or running a stop sign, the citation is written against my account and I am responsible for paying it. It would then be up to me to collect from my guest.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:32 PM
 
579 posts, read 992,816 times
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I understand the reimbursement, but a fine? Also, it seems that if you do not know the answer to this, it likely isn't going to be covered in your lease. Hopefully there is some clause in your lease that covers this.

Quote:
I am responsible for any damage or any citations written against a guest I authorize in through the gates.
You can invite a guest over, and some security guard can write them a citation? You have rent a cops out there enforcing traffic laws, even to guests? Then if they do not pay it, you have to? What if your guest did not do anything wrong but does not want to waste his time fighting it? This makes no sense and is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard as part of an HOA.

What if the security guard is lying and is just trying to generate revenue to secure his job, how do you go to court and prove him to be a liar? It seems if someone decides he does not like you, he can write you a ticket, and you are stuck paying it or moving out of the neighborhood.

How does anyone agree to live in a place like that? It seems people that are probably not qualified are given way too much power if they can fine you for traffic violations when they are not Metro.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:00 PM
 
11,138 posts, read 15,906,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVPoker1 View Post
You can invite a guest over, and some security guard can write them a citation? You have rent a cops out there enforcing traffic laws, even to guests? Then if they do not pay it, you have to? What if your guest did not do anything wrong but does not want to waste his time fighting it? This makes no sense and is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard as part of an HOA.

What if the security guard is lying and is just trying to generate revenue to secure his job, how do you go to court and prove him to be a liar? It seems if someone decides he does not like you, he can write you a ticket, and you are stuck paying it or moving out of the neighborhood.

How does anyone agree to live in a place like that? It seems people that are probably not qualified are given way too much power if they can fine you for traffic violations when they are not Metro.
No, you misunderstood. The guest is not sent the citation; the resident is. If one of my guests is charged with speeding within the development, I receive a citation. The HOA has no authority over people who do not live here.

I should also clarify that the citations given out are not traffic tickets in the same sense that police issue traffic tickets. There are no points involved and you do not appeal to a court. The violation is for breaking a rule of the association, which in this hypothetical case is speeding through the development. And just because a ticket is written, that doesn't mean you are stuck paying it. An appeal of the fine can be made to the HOA board.

Our armed security are here to help and protect the residents; they aren't our adversaries and they don't risk losing their jobs for not writing enough "tickets." That's not their primary job. However, if they see someone breaking the rules, they are expected to put a stop to the violation.

As for your statement wondering how people agree to live in a place like this: as someone mentioned in another thread, people have choices on how they choose to live and spend their money. If you don't like it, don't move here.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:24 PM
 
579 posts, read 992,816 times
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Quote:
Then if they do not pay it, you have to?
Quote:
No, you misunderstood. The guest is not sent the citation; the resident is. If one of my guests is charged with speeding within the development, I receive a citation. The HOA has no authority over people who do not live here.
I think this means exactly the same thing. It seems hard to justify that if the pizza delivery guy runs a stop sign in your neighborhood, and he was coming to your house, that is your problem. What about a teenager coming to visit your teenagers? They are all your guests.

I assume that when your guest visits, their license plate is recorded. They are approached by the security people and told of a citation. I guess since they probably know the license plates of your visitors, they could just send you the fine without your guest even knowing. Like any sane person, your guest is not going to pay some overzealous security guard's HOA fine, so you get stuck with it. Either way, that sounds like a great deal. I bet you have people lining up to move in there.

Quote:
As for your statement wondering how people agree to live in a place like this: as someone mentioned in another thread, people have choices on how they choose to live and spend their money. If you don't like it, don't move here.
Don't worry, I will not. I wonder how may potential buyers have purchased elsewhere when they found out about this. To each their own though.

This really sounds like it could be so badly abused. With all of the HOA fraud out there, I would not trust this for a second. If the HOA wants you out, they can just write you a bunch of tickets saying you and your guests did not stop for 5 seconds at a stop sign. There would be nothing that you could do. If you get some of these HOA fraudsters involved just imagine the limits. Maybe it is not a problem now, but an HOA having the ability to write traffic fines, not just to you, but anyone that comes to your house, and attach them to your house, could well be the most absurd power out there given to them.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:54 PM
 
2 posts, read 15,327 times
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I checked my CC&R's and just like Madman said, they can levy fees and fines and I am responsible for collecting from my tenant. I question the legality of this though, as it seems more appropriate to fine the person responsible for the damage/violation. As LVPoker points out, there is great potential by the HOA to abuse this power. It also complicates questions such as, is a parent responsible for their child breaking a law? Also, if she hit a tree and pole, why weren't the police notified? Outside of Rhodes Ranch, she would have been cited and responsible for her own actions.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:56 PM
 
2,724 posts, read 4,749,060 times
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Bureaucracy(socialist) vs. rationalization(capitalist)

Both methods are dehumanizing.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:03 PM
 
2,724 posts, read 4,749,060 times
Reputation: 1042
Autonomy is the answer.

HOA = Corrupt Instumentality
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:04 PM
 
2,724 posts, read 4,749,060 times
Reputation: 1042
Horsemen

Of the

Apocalypse
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:20 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 4,052,059 times
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Can't argue with either one of you, both made good points.

Couldn't rep either of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda View Post
As for your statement wondering how people agree to live in a place like this: as someone mentioned in another thread, people have choices on how they choose to live and spend their money. If you don't like it, don't move here.
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