[kyle88]

First off, I apologize for this being a bit long, but I wanted to make sure it was all here and I wouldn't have to elaborate further over and over. Also I basically said every step, bad and good of my side, to expedite me getting to my answers of what to say etc. at my appeal that'd suit me best and help me prepare for the absolute worst. I would greatly appreciate any advice from people that have been through a claim of their own in any state and/or someone like Buzz's expertise of having had worked for the unemployment office. SERIOUSLY THOUGH DON'T COME IN HERE TO FLAME ME, IT'S A WASTE OF TIME FOR BOTH OF US.

My Termination explained here:

I worked in a position, similar to a bellman at a hotel on the Strip for about 6 months and was in the culinary union as well. I was put on suspension for not having a contract to go along with a cash transaction I had performed. A manager had asked me where the contract and money was the next day following me doing the transaction. He said he could not find either of them. Long story short, I go and find the money, the contract is missing. I am put on suspension pending investigation and brought back two days later with pay in between (was scheduled the two days I was suspended for) all because a lady that had her credit card information on it wanted to see the paper with that information on it ripped up in front of her. My management was reluctant to bring me back and was arguing with me the day I came back stating that that would be my final-ish warning - people have been let go for a lot less I was told because of me not doing my due diligence, which I was arguing that I did do and someone had removed the contract from the desk, not me. I could tell by their tone and reluctance they still firmly believed I was attempting to steal and this made me feel like wtf because now I am guilty until proven innocent walking around at work and didn't do **** and wasn't sure for like 3 days in time if I had a job... The union got the best of them because they had no evidence, which I knew in advance of returning because I plead to the union and they told me. The union scared them so they sped up the process of returning me to work thankfully.

As you could imagine I felt a little on edge with my management and them with me. My second day back following the suspension I arrive at 2:07pm and clock in on paper for 2:00 because the electronic system wouldn't accept my punch in being that I was off a fresh suspension, it wouldn't let me, but did the previous day which was odd... I was scheduled for 2:00pm, yeah yeah yeah I know I should've been there on time especially following that but was not, but that is besides the point as you will see.) There was absolutely no manager at the clock and I clocked in by paper anyways, so no big deal I figured... I look at myself in the mirror, nervous already being late / fresh of suspension (for something I did not even do any wrong on...) and see I need to shave a little bit - they have bitched at me to previously. I didn't want to chance being seen unshaven even the slightest, so I went and shaved before going to my work post. After shaving I remembered that if I did not clock in electronically, the normal way, the paper copy MAY be not submitted into the daily attendance log my management uses and I'd have to call a manager to adjust the timesheet, which that manager hates doing and gives me hell about everytime, I suppose it involves quite a bit of paperwork and hassle. So... after shaving I then went back to the clock, before going to my work post, and asked a manager if I'd be clocked in or not for sure because I am on just paper, she said yea and were you late (at this time, being twenty something minutes after I was due to be at my work station, I know what you're thinking, this sounds HORRIBLE and )... I said no I wasn't - I truly didn't feel late and at worst I'd receive a half point for being late within 15mins I thought to myself thinking about company policy. Company policy allows for 7 points and I was only at 4 at the time of. I worked for another 2 hours and was called into the office and asked what time I showed up. I told them I was on time maybe a few minutes late, what is the big deal? They said they'd need a voluntary statement from me saying where I was and what time I started work and were very hostile, I grabbed a sheet and began to write willingly. They left the office. When they came back I switched my story and told them, look... I was a few minutes late and I'd like to receive a half a point and lets get on with our day. They told me no and I am officially on suspension pending investigation, AGAIN! I argued my case and the woman manager said leave the office for a minute, closed the door and tried to convince the other manager not to do this because I'd be fired being that I had a previous suspension (again for something I did no proven negligence on and they have absolutely no proof of anything against me which is why they had to bring me back, but they still probably think I was attempting to steal and I feel this 2nd incident was retaliation). He opened the door and told me to come in and to sign the suspension pending investigation letter. She advised me to write the voluntary statement because it'd be in my favor but I did not think so because I wasn't sure if it would self-incriminate me, so I chose not to until later. They told me they'd call me, just like the first suspension, and have me in for a meeting to let me know what their decision was. I left.

A few days later I was called in to meet with my dept. manager, who wasn't present the day of suspension and I was on extremely good standing with, and gave him my voluntary statement which was as truthful as what you're reading now and told him I was sorry, but I didn't think I was technically late (I was misinformed that the union protected us within 7 minutes of being late from getting fired etc.). He then told me this was my second and final and isn't sure what'll happen. The union told me I had to go to give my voluntary statement as a part of due process or I'd be quitting, which is why I wouldn't dare to not go.

A week later I was called in to meet with the dept mgr's boss, another high up boss which I was on good standing with, and he was very friendly about the situation, or seemingly. He asked how I was doing and seemed to genuinely care. However, he negated all of that when he mentioned why don't you just quit and not make us go through this process several times. He said no decision had been made yet and he'd leave it up to me and he had advised me to call and email him to keep in contact - which made me feel more hopeful about coming back, but I surely knew there was a great chance I wouldn't - the union told me they had me on camera being late and they could probably get tape of me going to shave. A few days later I had written emails and left voicemails showing regret and sorrow only to be answered by not a single response.

I stayed in contact with the union and told them to either have them fire me or bring me back but not to keep me sitting here twittling my thumbs.. they really had no pull on this suspension because they had me on camera though I was told by my same union rep as my first suspension. The union rep told me more than likely I am getting fired because of the length of time of the suspension and I could get my unemployment benefits if fired; I began to accept this idea and was awaiting them to just have me in to fire me, which felt like foreverrr. A week later, about 2 weeks from the suspension date, I was called in and fired by a separate manager. He gave me a letter that states:

"Reason for Termination: Dishonesty
Eligibility for Rehire: Ineligible

Detail: Following progressive discipline, I recommend separate from employment for Mr. XXX for the following reasons. 1) Dishonesty - Mr. XXX had plenty of opportunities to come forward to tell the truth about the incident and he did not. Currently Mr. XXX is on a second last and final for department policy violation."

The progressive discipline is the BS i was alluding to from the previous suspension. EDIT: after consulting with multiple lawyers today they all think that'll be too hard to prove to an unemployment referee that this was retaliation, which sucks because that really is what started all this grief for me... so I guess that really won't be able to work for me at all in the hearing it sounds like although it could not hurt to say at all.

I pondered if they were going to deny me for this and sure enough they did... but I'm not giving up, I already lost eligibilty, I have nothing to lose by appealing - I did no gross misconduct, the crimes defined in the unemployment manual like embezzlement, destruction of property, etc.
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Unemployment Appeal explained here:

I received a notice of determination shortly following my telephone hearing with the adjudicator for my claim; I was really hoping they wouldn't deny it, but it is what it is and looks like after researching most employers deny every one just for tax liability sake. It states the following:

Decision:
"You are not entitled to benefits effective 03/24/12 until you return to work in covered employment and earn at least $169.00 in each of 10 weeks. (Proof of earning must be furnished to end this DQ period).

Summary of Facts:
-You were discharged for dishonesty.
-The employer had provided a timeline of the final incident where you were scheduled to work at 2pm, you did not clock in until 2:07p and you were given plenty of opportunities to tell the truth about the incident and you did not.
-You state you were told you were discharged for dishonesty and you deny not being shaven and ready for work.

Disqualifying misconduct occurs when an employee deliberately and unjustifiably violates or disregards the employer's reasonable policy or standard. Arriving at and being ready for work at the scheduled time is a reasonable policy. You are ineligible for benefits.

Law:
NRS 612.385: A person is ineligible for benefits if he was discharged from his last or next-to-last employment for misconduct connected with the work."

I have until the 30th to write a letter to appeal. I have contacted several potential representatives for myself on this case for the appeal day, if anyone has had success w/ one or an appeal, let me know!. A few that want to take the case, a few that do not. Most seem to say I can just write something saying simply that "I want to appeal" and a few have recommended me to go into detail so the referee has my side of the story right off the bat in their mind before the hearing.

I have not picked one yet, but as you could imagine I cannot afford an expensive attorney for this case. Most seem to ask for hourly pay ~200/hr, which is high, and some $500-750 right off the bat and a few lower, the lowest being $350.00 flat. It is all non-contingency (not paid for success, paid either way the ruling goes). While I am still deciding on who to go with to represent me I have discovered the odds will be much greater of winning if I do have representation, according to several internet blogs. However, I have read on the forum that most lawyers don't know **** about unemployment, this I found to be the case about some of the ones I called, but that was mainly because Nevada wasn't their state of practice.. Right now I am realllly leaning towards this guys service: uchelpcenter.com, he has a facebook full of happy people he helped, but not a single failed one...makes one curious..

What I am wondering is will all issues be set aside and the deciding factor against me be whether or not I told them I was on time, the dishonesty claim. I am worried that will be it - this is what one lawyer has already advised me would be. However, other people are willing to represent me on the side of the case sticking to that I should have only received a half point and not been penalized further. On the other side of the fence they have 0 tolerance for dishonesty and that is a valid policy, so it'll be like all hearsay at the hearing w/ possibly the discharging managers which will testify, worst case scenario for me.

Another issue is if the hearing will be in person or not. I have heard that it'd be a disservice to my side of the case to not be in person, however the representative I am leaning towards at the moment, the cheapest one, is in Pennsylvania.

-------

In the meantime appeal aside and to explain why I don't just find another job right now:

I could work 10 weeks somewhere and easily earn 169.00/wk (that's my old benefit amount when I was previously on unemployment and that's why I'd have to earn at least that per week) and be eligible for the wages that I earned at this employer starting in July I have found out. I am currently doing 1099 work at 5/hr approximately through the RJ as a paperboy to support myself now and would stop when/if I get my unemployment benefits in July started again if I win this appeal. I prefer to not do the type of 1099 work I am doing now and leave asap; I'd already have started working now on a W2, BUT I'd have to leave that new employer all over again at no fault of my own to obtain the amount I'd earn with my hotel wages configured in for my new unemployment amount that I explained would start in July. This new amount is FAR higher than what I could get now (from older employers that I have received from previous to this hotel employer), if I was eligible, about double to be exact - that is my goal. The amount I'd get on unemployment is just as much as I am making doing the paper route 7days/wk now, so if that doesn't explain my urge to get acceptance of this, I don't know what does.

I really wish I could just hop into a W2 line of work right now, but then I would not be accepted for my new amount in July unless I get fired for no fault of my own / laid off. I am thinking of finding temp work from anywhere, however it'd have to be W2, not 1099 work to qualify to be part of those 10wks I require for reeligibility, if anyone knows of any in the Las Vegas area or where to look for some (I've tried several temp agencies with no reponses), PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

If you are thinking I am an unemployment whoring tool by now and you are just going to flame me let me tell you this: I am not. I am only in my low 20's and am busting my ass to get through a medical internship and will be in the healthcare industry in my career path by 2015 at 25, I'd say that's pretty admirable and not a procrastinator, but you be the judge. Back to the subject though... the honest reason I prefer to stay on unemployment (which you are probably wondering why I am so defensive about keeping if you've read this far) in the future rather than starting with another employer now that'd pay ~10/hr+ is because I will be in school (starting this medical internship in June for 2 years without a semester off, (Sum/Spr/Fall/Sum/Spr/Fall) so much that I would not be able to even make as much as my new benefit amount would be working part time even at let's say as lucky as 14/hr for the max of 20 or so hours my schedule has free after traveling and eating and ****ting, seriously though. This is where my stress is coming from and my bills need to be paid, just as all adults that pay for their own bills, regardless of age, sure would understand,

[Buzz123]

It appears to me that you are your own worst enemy. You talk too much. I skimmed this (you don't really expect anyone to read all the BS do you?).

You could have stated in about four sentences what happened. What it boils down to is you were disqualified for UI because you were fired for being late. That's all you need to address in Appeals. Bring up this other stuff and, in my opinion, you'll just PO the Appeals Ref, and give the employer ammunition to use against you. If you read the Adjudicator's decision, the dishonesty wasn't proven.

If it was proven, you would have been disqualified for Gross Misconduct, which is way more serious, and they would have taken away your benefits from this employer's account. As it is, your claim is there for one year and if you earn $169 in each of ten weeks, get laid off, and file an ADDITIONAL Claim, you'll be paid starting then until either the money runs out or the year is up.

By being late for work you shot yourself in the foot. Otherwise the other issue would probably have been moot. Their mistake as far as UI is concerned, had that been the case, would have been letting you come back to work instead of firing you immediately. Honestly, I have to say I don't believe you when you spend so much effort arguing you didn't take the money. So probably that's why the employer didn't either.

Anyway, if you have a chance at all in Appeals, it might be if they had a habit of ignoring the policy for being late, or if you had never been late before and they aren't supposed to fire people for the first offense.

(BTW: you were disqualified by the State, not the employer ─ the employer doesn't get to decide. If they did there wouldn't be any UI)

[dynimagelv]

I LOVE when a one post wonder starts out by beggin for help and then giving said helper a ration of doo.


:Tape:

[kyle88]

If me being late was proven to unemployment I'd of been charged with gross misconduct? If unemployment was given what, something like a videotape? So they didn't, yet, understood. But let's say they do so in their evidence for the appeal, which I'll know in approx two weeks when the file is available to view and I can see their evidence. My question in a nutshell is am I potentially looking at a gross misconduct charge if it is deemed that I was lying to the employer and late? Thus, making this employer's wages unavailable to be used on a new claim in the future?

[lvoc]

What do you do with those who are openly suicidal?

Even if they can win on a technicality they should not.

Suicide should be its own reward...

[Buzz123]

Originally Posted by kyle88

If me being late was proven to unemployment I'd of been charged with gross misconduct? If unemployment was given what, something like a videotape? So they didn't, yet, understood. But let's say they do so in their evidence for the appeal, which I'll know in approx two weeks when the file is available to view and I can see their evidence. My question in a nutshell is am I potentially looking at a gross misconduct charge if it is deemed that I was lying to the employer and late? Thus, making this employer's wages unavailable to be used on a new claim in the future?

That's not even close to what I said. I hate to get involved with people filing for unemployment. You almost have to be a lawyer to understand all the UI laws, or at least work in the field for a few years. But without exception they act like the proverbial drowning man who will pull you under with him. Trying to help someone with UI ALWAYS, EVERY SINGLE TIME, will have them blaming you for why they got fired. Never their fault, it's your fault, and you don't even know them.

Anyway, Kyle, you said they accused you of stealing or something like that. I didn't quite understand it because I still don't know what you do, or what the terms you used mean. But the Adjudicator said nothing about that, so it is NOT the issue.

All I said is, if they had proven that you stole money, that would be gross misconduct. Being late is simple misconduct. Causing the employer a loss such as by stealing money, is GROSS MIS-CONDUCT. All claims are based on the money you made wherever you were working the first four of the last five quarters at the time you first file one. If that was at the employer that fired you, and IF they had shown that you stole anything, you could not file a claim based on the money you earned from them. You still might have worked at other places and could use that money if you had made enough to qualify for UI. But if your weekly benefit is only $169 then you already didn't make much during the base period.

Since it was not mentioned by the Adjudicator in the denial letter, then it is NOT an ISSUE and you don't have to worry about it. The appeal will only deal with your being late. So if you can prove you were not late, or if there is policy that says they can't fire you for it, that is your defense.

Because you make everything so complex and ramble all over the place instead of just presenting the pertinent facts, you are making people believe you did something a lot more wrong than being 7 minutes late one time. If you just shut up you might win the appeal. After all, many times employers don't even bother to show up for appeals.

[Buzz123]

BTW: I do not believe that the Appeals Ref is allowed to let the employer accuse you of anything other than what was adjudicated, ie: being late. If he/she allows the employer to say you were stealing, and if the Ref changes the denial to gross misconduct ...well, I don't think they are allowed to do that. And then you would file to the Board of Review to look at what the Appeals Ref did and see if he/she failed to follow the letter of the law.

But for a small claim of $169 a week, it's not worth all the aggravation you're going through in my opinion. Just go out and show them by finding a better job. The best revenge is to flourish and prosper. It drives them crazy.

[kyle88]

Originally Posted by Buzz123

That's not even close to what I said. I hate to get involved with people filing for unemployment. You almost have to be a lawyer to understand all the UI laws, or at least work in the field for a few years. But without exception they act like the proverbial drowning man who will pull you under with him. Trying to help someone with UI ALWAYS, EVERY SINGLE TIME, will have them blaming you for why they got fired. Never their fault, it's your fault, and you don't even know them.

Anyway, Kyle, you said they accused you of stealing or something like that. I didn't quite understand it because I still don't know what you do, or what the terms you used mean. But the Adjudicator said nothing about that, so it is NOT the issue.

All I said is, if they had proven that you stole money, that would be gross misconduct. Being late is simple misconduct. Causing the employer a loss such as by stealing money, is GROSS MIS-CONDUCT. All claims are based on the money you made wherever you were working the first four of the last five quarters at the time you first file one. If that was at the employer that fired you, and IF they had shown that you stole anything, you could not file a claim based on the money you earned from them. You still might have worked at other places and could use that money if you had made enough to qualify for UI. But if your weekly benefit is only $169 then you already didn't make much during the base period.

Since it was not mentioned by the Adjudicator in the denial letter, then it is NOT an ISSUE and you don't have to worry about it. The appeal will only deal with your being late. So if you can prove you were not late, or if there is policy that says they can't fire you for it, that is your defense.

Because you make everything so complex and ramble all over the place instead of just presenting the pertinent facts, you are making people believe you did something a lot more wrong than being 7 minutes late one time. If you just shut up you might win the appeal. After all, many times employers don't even bother to show up for appeals.

You misunderstood me as I did you, no biggie. Just wanted to make sure the current accusation could not lead to gross misconduct and DQ this employer's wages for my new unemployment claim I'll start in July if I win. So what you told me is good news and no I am not trying to make you out to be the blame - you are the help to my solution of thinking what to say and just knowing if I could get into anymore trouble than a simple denial without any repercussions. This is very good news if I cannot be charged with gross misconduct. I am just asking the hardest questions to see what kind of a case I have and if it is worth paying for representation on; I don't want to pay for something I feel is gonna be a loss.

Originally Posted by Buzz123

BTW: I do not believe that the Appeals Ref is allowed to let the employer accuse you of anything other than what was adjudicated, ie: being late. If he/she allows the employer to say you were *stealing, and if the Ref changes the denial to gross misconduct ...well, I don't think they are allowed to do that. And then you would file to the Board of Review to look at what the Appeals Ref did and see if he/she failed to follow the letter of the law.

This is great news to me. I won't have to go through that process, but it's good to know.

Originally Posted by Buzz123

But for a small claim of $169 a week, it's not worth all the aggravation you're going through in my opinion. Just go out and show them by finding a better job. The best revenge is to flourish and prosper. It drives them crazy.

And the new benefit amount is ~300/wk, not 169 - that is the old benefit amount. This is why it's worth fighting for; it'd be just as much as I could make working 30hrs a week at 10/hr, which is more than likely what I'll find that'll be flexible around my school schedule which starts in a month. This would save me soooo much time for me to study and succeed in school yet have free time and anything else over this 2 year period I am in my internship. It's sooo worth fighting for to me, which is why I am questioning all the worst case scenarios and preparing for the worst, but trust me I AM hoping for the best.

I cannot wait to be done with school and never deal with this low level **** ever again, trustttt meee, haha. So sad, I am trying to grasp onto winning an unemployment case like it's a victory, but it really would be to me financially for that time being.

[Buzz123]

Originally Posted by kyle88

And the new benefit amount is ~300/wk, not 169 - that is the old benefit amount. This is why it's worth fighting for; it'd be just as much as I could make working 30hrs a week at 10/hr, which is more than likely what I'll find that'll be flexible around my school schedule which starts in a month. This would save me soooo much time for me to study and succeed in school yet have free time and anything else over this 2 year period I am in my internship. It's sooo worth fighting for to me, which is why I am questioning all the worst case scenarios and preparing for the worst, but trust me I AM hoping for the best.
I cannot wait to be done with school and never deal with this low level **** ever again, trustttt meee, haha. So sad, I am trying to grasp onto winning an unemployment case like it's a victory, but it really would be to me financially for that time being.

Whoaaaaaaaaaaaa. School? You can't get unemployment and go to school unless your school schedule is flexible enough to allow you time to not only look for a FULL TIME job, but also to take one when offered. Internship? Same thing, especially if you get paid from it which would affect your claim. And if you don't report these things you would be committing fraud, so I hope you know the rules and don't end up facing a judge. 32 hours a week is considered fulltime for UI purposes.

I got the $169 a week from what you said earlier. So do you already have a claim in effect this year? Is what you're filing now an Additional Claim (meaning reopening an existing one)? Does the original expire in July or something?

[dynimagelv]

hmmmmmmm isnt drawing unemployment and going to school full time [thus not seeking and accepting full time employment] in FACT, STEALING?