[lvoc]

Originally Posted by enviromontoya

Thank you. Put me right in my place.
But I think I'll leave that up to the readership of the thread. And, barring that, the results of further actual studies and results.




Here's three glasses of water. One of them was measured to contain trace amounts of arsenic which may well get readings above safe levels...such as they are. We don't know which glass that is, because it's raining, and a Tuesday, so the glasses may have changed and our first test could be considered erroneous relative to any new test results. I'll let you decide which one to drink from.

Simply Silly...have you nothing better to do than raise nonsense?

Source: COPD - Symptoms, Diagnosing & Treatment | Asbestos.com



Sources:
Environmental hazard - encyclopedia article about Environmental hazard
List of environmental health hazards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Right, "absurd".
I'm way off base... again.
Appears Wiki doesn't agree with you. They don't seem to list the term here.
Perhaps you can petition them to include... sunlight?

***************************************
Sunlight is a carcinogen to which everyone is
exposed. Its UV component is the major epidemiologic risk
factor for squamous cell carcinoma of the skin.

****************************************
http://www.pnas.org/content/88/22/10124.full.pdf

So it is a recognized carcinogen but not a hazard. It sure as hell is in the environment.

You appear to be trying to come up with a competing argument against asbestos-recognition as the (ongoing) threat that it demonstrably is in Clark County, at all.
Why the competition?

Does it matter what percentage of COPD in current Clark County numbers is attributable to asbestos?
What if the numbers change as we learn more? Will it pass your test then?

Does something more or less deadly than asbestos in Clark County make the asbestos we know about, or the asbestos we learn about... go away?
Is there a "victor" if your statistics about apples are better than my statistics about oranges?
Does somebody win a prize?
Something more important to YOU to conquer than asbestosis or its prevention? Radon, it seems, now?
Cool... go do that.
This thread is - pretty sure - still about asbestos awareness. And it's not a competition.

Yes it does matter what the causals of COPD are. You evaluate a threat by its importance and you fix the big causals first. Unproven miniscule causals are generally not worth pursuing until you get the big ones. In the case of COPD in NV smoking is the one of monumental size.

NOA is to be monitored and dealt with. If it should prove to be a significant factor in the list of hazards to which people are exposed reasonable steps should be taken to correct the situation. In the interim however we should not ban living in Southern Nevada or even in Boulder City.

[enviromontoya]

Originally Posted by Tek_Freek

Move to Iowa. Radon has to be handled if you sell a house. We did when we moved here. They tested, it was too high, we paid for remediation.

Lived there 66 years. Radon hasn't killed me yet.

This is a great, common sense "caught in time" example, it would seem.
Problem/source - Detection/acceptance - Mitigation/remediation.

If only it were so simple with NOA in such large quantities.
One thing to NOT do, of course, is exacerbate the situation with avoidable or alterable construction projects. (You wouldn't, for example, do something as silly as go digging in your Radon-basement with your family after you knew about the hazard.)
But then... no contractor or politician wants to hear that when the train is already up to speed.

[NLVgal]

They used a sht. Ton of it at the test sight. My former boyfriend, a nuclear physicist, found a bunch of it out there. The boss tore off the tags rather than pay the cost for the clean up. Follow the money. It rarely lies.

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by NLVgal

They used a sht. Ton of it at the test sight. My former boyfriend, a nuclear physicist, found a bunch of it out there. The boss tore off the tags rather than pay the cost for the clean up. Follow the money. It rarely lies.

And that to me is the real problem with asbestos. Built in rewards for cheating the system.

I once spent half a decade fighting the problem in a quite modern building. Unfortunately we could not work out where the sh#t was. We clean up and properly remediated all the obvious places. Then we would take a sample of the dust on top of doors and find more asbestos then we liked. We speculate that the problem was that the fireproofing on the steel frame was leaking through but we never knew.

We were a very well off big Fortune 100 company. So we had virtually unlimited funding if we were willing to run the internal gauntlet. But it was still hard...we were not going to tear down a marvelous and interesting building to get at its frame.

Now put yourself in the role of a poor school district or a small business with a 10K sf facility. What do you do.

But this is really another issue. This guy is basically proposing, though he will never admit it...to shut down the bypass and perhaps all construction in the SE corner of Clark County if not in the entire valley. Then we go off and spend 20 years or more demonstrating it is not a big problem.

I am actually one who suggest a bit of care on global climate change. But I also believe each thing requires judgment. SAnd I do not see a case at this point for declaring NOA a to be a Vegas Valley disaster.

[NLVgal]

Originally Posted by lvoc

And that to me is the real problem with asbestos. Built in rewards for cheating the system.

I once spent half a decade fighting the problem in a quite modern building. Unfortunately we could not work out where the sh#t was. We clean up and properly remediated all the obvious places. Then we would take a sample of the dust on top of doors and find more asbestos then we liked. We speculate that the problem was that the fireproofing on the steel frame was leaking through but we never knew.

We were a very well off big Fortune 100 company. So we had virtually unlimited funding if we were willing to run the internal gauntlet. But it was still hard...we were not going to tear down a marvelous and interesting building to get at its frame.

Now put yourself in the role of a poor school district or a small business with a 10K sf facility. What do you do.

But this is really another issue. This guy is basically proposing, though he will never admit it...to shut down the bypass and perhaps all construction in the SE corner of Clark County if not in the entire valley. Then we go off and spend 20 years or more demonstrating it is not a big problem.

I am actually one who suggest a bit of care on global climate change. But I also believe each thing requires judgment. SAnd I do not see a case at this point for declaring NOA a to be a Vegas Valley disaster.

I know. There is a risk/ balance thing in almost every project.
I am not afraid of a little asbestos, cryptosporidium can kiss my ass; and E. coli is for pansies. It's called an immune system, and I have one.

[enviromontoya]

Originally Posted by lvoc

In the interim however we should not ban living in Southern Nevada or even in Boulder City.

Where was this suggested? By anyone?

Originally Posted by lvoc

This guy is basically proposing, though he will never admit it...to shut down the bypass and perhaps all construction in the SE corner of Clark County if not in the entire valley

Lot's of assumptions.
"ban living in Southern Nevada"
"guy"
"he" "will never admit it"
"shut down the bypass and perhaps all construction in the SE corner of Clark County"

Is this the depth of the logic in here? Baseless accusations and unfounded assumptions to defend against... what again?

...Evidence?

Didn't take much to touch a nerve. (What's that old saying about the overly-defensive?)

Originally Posted by NLVgal

I am not afraid of a little asbestos, cryptosporidium can kiss my ass; and E. coli is for pansies. It's called an immune system, and I have one.

Oh yeah, the "super-immunity". We're all saved. Whshew, that was a close one.

[Tek_Freek]

The problem here sir/madam/it/whatever is we all think "you doth protest too much" to quote some old guy who used to write stuff.

I will again reference a story that I brought up in another thread last week.

Peter and the Wolf.

And yes, it is a competition. You have proven that in every one of your posts.

Signing off in the midst of unrelenting boredom.

[enviromontoya]

Originally Posted by Tek_Freek

The problem here sir/madam/it/whatever is we all think "you doth protest too much" to quote some old guy who used to write stuff.

Oh, "we"?
Is that the proverbial "we" or the collective "we".
Didn't know I was dealing with a union.
Either way, I guess "the judgment" has been finalized.
(not creepy)

Originally Posted by Tek_Freek

And yes, it is a competition.

Mmmmno... It's really not.
Defending a position - within reason -, or against personal attack or misrepresentation of character or statement, is not "competition", it's assertiveness.
One-upsmanship (or multi-upsmanship) - whether out of a struggle for position, a compensation for a lack of knowledge or content contribution, or desperation (often flagged by distraction techniques, unqualified personal attack or presumptive accusation) - could be defined as a "competition".
Competition may often include disagreement. But disagreement does not always indicate competition. (Certainly not a need for one.)

There's no way or reason to "compete" with numbers of death-types. I realize people do try, for different reasons, to so do. But, no one or nothing to win, there, so, yeah, kind of sick and pointless. Not gonna be part of it, thanks.
Debate, banter, discussion? Fine. Who's number of deaths from one thing is bigger than someone else's number of deaths from something completely unrelated? Pointless.

I suppose there are those that could and do make a competition out of anything. But, personally (which is not to say "personal"), I find that sort of reaching to be kind of... sad. And telling. (..and talk about the truly boring.) (But then, I also don't get very excited about inane and inaccurate literary interpretations and references, or secret schoolyard riddles and whispering, or people speaking on my behalf or putting words in my mouth, either, so... guess I wouldn't make a very good "we", either. That is, if that's what the collective stands for. I wouldn't want to make the mistake of being presumptive in here.)

Sorry if (in my personal opinion) one of the most important topics in Las Vegas in our time doesn't hold some interest or cull favor for the "some" or the "we" (you do represent them "all" you say?), but it's one of those... uncomfortable yet necessary things to discuss - for the remainder.
(Admittedly that's another opinion).
It's not akin to the latest Vegas club openings. Or who's playing on the strip this month. Or why your brand of AstroTurf patch is burning under dog poo. But I guess I have my own brand of... interests. (There are all kinds of other

distractions
...elsewhere. I just happen to find them... distracting.)

What's not an opinion happens to be asbestos in Clark County - and its current and currently-demonstrably-evolving link to lung cancer and disease in the region.
Again, pre-I-11-Bypass-Project, I find that to be more than just an "interesting" subject, I find it, also, to be an appropriate and important one for Las Vegans.

Maybe somebody else does, too.

The approval and interpretations of the "we" notwithstanding, I guess I'd just be left speaking to the individuals in the room to find out.
Terrible. What'll I do?

[enviromontoya]

Received our I-11 "start of construction" announcement in the mail today.

Strangely no mention made anywhere within of asbestos.


Must've fixed it.

Guess everything's fine.

[Raiderman]

Originally Posted by enviromontoya

Received our I-11 "start of construction" announcement in the mail today.

Strangely no mention made anywhere within of asbestos.


Must've fixed it.

Guess everything's fine.

Whew, that's a relief! I was worried for a bit...