[EA]

If you get with the right company, they will teach you the industry way to weld. The school will probably teach you a general way that may not work for certain trades. BUT, if you decide to do welding outside of say pipefitting, then being taught by the union might be a con.

[yellowsnow]

Congratulations to you! Very smart of you to have done what you needed to do to get the money to be trained. And a winter in ND is nothing to sneeze at. I hope you are successful!

If I was starting over I would be right there with you. I think welding/trades is a better bet right now than college.

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

If I was starting over I would be right there with you. I think welding/trades is a better bet right now than college.

This is a big problem in America.

College is not necessarily for job skills. There are compelling reasons to attend school other than a flippin' paycheck. Reasonably bright people will find a way to financially thrive. (It may take awhile. But it will eventually happen. Keep saving and investing.)

College is for what happens after people learn to thrive and personal finance goes on autopilot. It drives me absolutely batty when people dismiss an art history degree as "useless." Having such a degree makes all the world's museums more interesting. That's hardly useless.

Think of the liberal arts as an insurance policy against a boring life. I haven't used my degree professionally for a couple decades now. I'm still glad I went through the effort to obtain it. It pays dividends every time I apply for a job.

[von949]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

And a winter in ND is nothing to sneeze at.

That was definitely an experience for me. I was lucky that the company I worked for in ND had an open position available in LV. So it was a simple transfer with same pay.

[usnftcret]

There is nothing wrong in getting an Art degree in college. Going $50k in debt for student loans to get that degree is ludicrous.

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by usnftcret

There is nothing wrong in getting an Art degree in college. Going $50k in debt for student loans to get that degree is ludicrous.

What's ludicrous is that people need to go into that kind of debt to obtain an education. Working ones way through isn't an option any more -- except at community colleges and similar. And although I'm a huge fan of the community college system, the fact that a motivated student cannot put themselves through a prestige university anymore is near the top of my list of what's wrong with America. And let's face it -- $50K won't cover an associate's degree at most schools.

When I was young, I was surrounded by "self-made" people -- small business owners and similar. Many of them would brag about how they succeeded without attending college. But in private, all of them to a man confided that they wish they had attended. Or they wished they had stuck with it and graduated. Privately, they lamented that they were deprived opportunities that graduating college might have given them. Some went back and graduated. Most didn't.

Also, when I was young, I knew a great many people who worked their way through medical school. That was once an option as well. I don't see much of that happening these days, either.

I fear we're going to continue this national tailspin until we start investing in ourselves again -- bridges and roads. But also investing in students. I never used to see such blatant contempt for education. That's only been happening during the last 20 years or so -- right about the time when the cost of a college degree skyrocketed.

Now it's just another thing that separates the haves and the have nots.

[airics]

We are going to continue this tailspin until we limit welfare, section 8 etc. There should not be "generations" of families receiving assistance... its the biggest fraud in this country. I dont know how many are getting that free house and living with others that work. That would eliminate them from the program.....1 year is more than enough time to get on ones feet.

[ScoopLV]

They're a drop in the bucket. Seriously. A drop in the bucket.

I don't even concern myself with minor problems like welfare cheats and welfare queens. They exist, sure. Nobody is denying they don't exist. But the money we spend on such people amounts to a few bucks out of my taxes each year. Compare that to the money we spend on the F35 fighter program and corporate subsidies. That's a big chunk of change, which amounts to thousands of dollars out of my taxes each year.

Welfare queens are a convenient distraction for the thieves who rob us blind. They want us to be furious at welfare queens. It directs our societal anger away from the real source of our problems.

I think America would be much better served by having more educated citizens than less welfare queens.

[lvoc]

I would think the eventual outcome will be to follow the Europeans and provide education at least through college at little or no cost.

Basically the student loan programs are doomed. The graduates are not going to be able to pay them back. We in fact admit this by blocking bankruptcy. We are admitting that the graduates would be unable to pay off this debt to our normal standards so we have blocked that relief path.

Once the pressure becomes high enough we will see loan forgiveness and programs to provide tuition without repayment.

May end up a good thing in the end but painful to those trapped now.

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by airics

We are going to continue this tailspin until we limit welfare, section 8 etc. There should not be "generations" of families receiving assistance... its the biggest fraud in this country. I dont know how many are getting that free house and living with others that work. That would eliminate them from the program.....1 year is more than enough time to get on ones feet.

The problem of course is that it is a very expensive fix. No matter how you go about it a lot of money. Breaking the poverty cycle is hard and expensive.

Only way I see is to intercept the young generation and educate them in spite of their parents. And that sort of social action costs. But if you don't do it right it does not take as we continue to demonstrate.