[ScoopLV]

As usual, Evel Knievel couldn't make that logical leap. The government needs revenue to pave roads and license morticians and similar.

Of all the ways government can raise funds to pay for this stuff, taxing optional luxuries (like a crippling addictive substance) is the best way. That's why I'm gung-ho for a state lottery. Let people who suck at math pay more -- it's not like they're not going to do anything smart with their money if they're buying $50 in scratch-offs each week.

Boo hoo to the smokers who don't like it. If the financial burden is more than they can bear, they can grow a pair* and quit. If they're too weak to quit, that's their problem. Not my problem. And NOT the government's problem either. It's just another example of pampered princesses who expect everything to go their way. Las Vegas is like a magnet for such people -- no personal accountability and quick to slough off their responsibilities on anyone but themselves.

Don't like the taxes? Move. Somalia and Haiti don't have ANY taxes -- on cigarettes, property, income, machine guns, heroin, nothing. It's the Libertarian happy hunting grounds. No tax collectors at all. I'm sure these "taxes are unfair" smokers will just love it there.


* A pair of testes or a pair of ovaries, take your pick.

[BBMW]

^
The problem occurs when the suckers smarten up and/or die off, and the government has become reliant on that income stream.

[ScoopLV]

The money we save not having to take extraordinary measures to prolong their lives will more than compensate for the future loss of revenue.

Look at how Ayn Rand died. After a lifetime of demanding that government provides nothing useful and that smoking isn't a health hazard, she died on both welfare and medicaid for her lung cancer, strung out on narcotics because she couldn't handle the pain.

She was the zenith of hypocrisy. And some people worship her as if she was a socioeconomic genius. (The same kind of people who whinge on about cigarette taxes.)

[wpme]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

The money we save not having to take extraordinary measures to prolong their lives will more than compensate for the future loss of revenue.

So can we quit supplying medical care to fat people? They suck up just as much if not more resources as the smokers, and they are not paying a sin tax.

Your argument keeps boiling down to "it does not affect me so I don't care", good luck with that because the day is coming where some activity you enjoy (most likely alcohol) will be taxed at a higher rate.

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by wpme

Your argument keeps boiling down to "it does not affect me so I don't care", good luck with that because the day is coming where some activity you enjoy (most likely alcohol) will be taxed at a higher rate.

You really don't get it. I think you WILLFULLY don't get it. Maybe you're so addicted to nicotine that you can't see anything past your next fix. (I don't know you, so that's just speculation.)

I don't care if they jack the taxes on beer and wine. (I don't go for hard spirits.) If they do, I'll pay them. Or I'll cut back. Or I'll quit entirely. What I won't do is get online and snivel about paying taxes. I'd rather see higher taxes on unnecessary luxuries like alcohol than taxes on food and clothing. Taxes like that hit families harder.

Do you remember when the government wanted to raise taxes on cigars 10 years ago? You should have seen the butt-hurt quasi-addicts sniveling about how unfair life/government/the universe/reality was. These are people who pay $30 for a Cohiba.

"Oh, it's so unfair, the big mean government making me pay $3 extra on a $30 cigar that I'm just going to burn anyway. Oh, the humanity!"

[Tornado Baby]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

You really don't get it. I think you WILLFULLY don't get it. Maybe you're so addicted to nicotine that you can't see anything past your next fix. (I don't know you, so that's just speculation.)

I don't care if they jack the taxes on beer and wine. (I don't go for hard spirits.) If they do, I'll pay them. Or I'll cut back. Or I'll quit entirely. What I won't do is get online and snivel about paying taxes. I'd rather see higher taxes on unnecessary luxuries like alcohol than taxes on food and clothing. Taxes like that hit families harder.

Do you remember when the government wanted to raise taxes on cigars 10 years ago? You should have seen the butt-hurt quasi-addicts sniveling about how unfair life/government/the universe/reality was. These are people who pay $30 for a Cohiba.

"Oh, it's so unfair, the big mean government making me pay $3 extra on a $30 cigar that I'm just going to burn anyway. Oh, the humanity!"

Excellent post, Scoop! When I lived in the UK the price of smokes and alcohol went up every year like clockwork. It has been very profitable, so they do it every year. Keeps their health care system going a little, anyway. And now smoking indoors, even in pubs, is banned. The pubs are still doing great business. Tax on alcohol has gone up regularly, too. When I moved there in the late 70's, a pint of beer cost under a dollar, 44 pence. Just got back and a pint is close to £5, nearly $8 with the current exchange rate. Most of the cost is tax. I worked in a pub back in the day and they have to account for every drop sold or the pub gets penalized.

As NV is a haven for smokers, taxing cigarettes is a reliable source of income. Even if the black market for cigarettes expands, NV will win with this. They are doing what works.

I just lost a good friend to cancer from smoking at age 60. Smoked like crazy, even though he was homeless for years. He did not care more for a roof over his head more that addiction....he was alcoholic, too, to be fair, but even when he got sober he never stopped smoking. He never went without a cigarette, and earned money on the street by rolling cigarettes to sell. He made a buck for each one and supplied himself. He was also a huge Ayn Rand fan. It is a mindset as much as an addiction. I figure if I have to inhale the crap every time I go out here, I can enjoy the fact that someone else gets to pay more for it. The downside is that each time a smoker dies early, a piece of that tax income goes away....but a bigger piece is saved in keeping that person alive when he inevitably gets sick.

What would really be interesting is if bars here required smokers to smoke only cigarettes that bar sold, instead of bringing their own in. Just like alcohol. Tax the hell out of those. Gamblers will still buy them. Then people who don't gamble but still smoke might stay home and smoke. Not all smokers in bars are gamblers. But if gambling is the reason smoking is allowed, then sell the most expensive cigarettes to them. Then the logic of this would make sense. Just a thought.....

[wpme]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

You really don't get it. I think you WILLFULLY don't get it. Maybe you're so addicted to nicotine that you can't see anything past your next fix. (I don't know you, so that's just speculation.)

I don't care if they jack the taxes on beer and wine. (I don't go for hard spirits.) If they do, I'll pay them. Or I'll cut back. Or I'll quit entirely. What I won't do is get online and snivel about paying taxes. I'd rather see higher taxes on unnecessary luxuries like alcohol than taxes on food and clothing. Taxes like that hit families harder.

Do you remember when the government wanted to raise taxes on cigars 10 years ago? You should have seen the butt-hurt quasi-addicts sniveling about how unfair life/government/the universe/reality was. These are people who pay $30 for a Cohiba.

"Oh, it's so unfair, the big mean government making me pay $3 extra on a $30 cigar that I'm just going to burn anyway. Oh, the humanity!"

Crazy as it sounds, I'm thinking you don't get it! I get taxes and the need to supply services, I just do not believe any subset of citizens should be targeted by taxes and laws, as has been done to tobacco smokers. And yes I believe that it is the beginning of a slippery slope for any group of people to choose their perceived "sinful" sub group to tax more heavily. Alcohol consumption is well documented as being harmful to the individual, and their family, yet alcohol taxes are stupidly low. Health care costs for alcoholics (which Nevada has plenty of) are also clearly documented, so other than it being Nevadans favorite pastime, why is not taxed more? The health care costs of obese people are also clear, if the justification for tobacco tax is health care costs then the same logic should apply to obese people.

As for taxing families, of course we should tax them more because they require more government services. Its seems like common sense to me, tax those that use the services. Currently I pay school taxes on just under 100 properties in 5 states, yet I have no children, does that sound fair to you? Have not sold a property in 10 years, so there is no income from these investments, yet on top of property taxes I have to pony up school taxes for snot nosed kids I did not conceive. If your argument is that tobacco smokers should pay higher taxes because of future health care costs then I would counter that people with children should pay higher school taxes and I should pay none. They choose to have children, they can pay for them.

I do not believe I have complained once about the tax on tobacco, my complaint is on the disparity of how taxes are applied.

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by wpme

As for taxing families, of course we should tax them more because they require more government services. Its seems like common sense to me, tax those that use the services. Currently I pay school taxes on just under 100 properties in 4 states, yet I have no children, does that sound fair to you? Have not sold a property in 10 years, so there is no income from these investments, yet on top of property taxes I have to pony up school taxes for snot nosed kids I did not conceive. If your argument is that tobacco smokers should pay higher taxes because of future health care costs then I would counter that people with children should pay higher school taxes and I should pay none. They choose to have children, they can pay for them.

Ahhh..... I see. You're an Ayn Rand Libertarian.


So, who paid for your education when you were going through the system? Do you think for a minute that there weren't real estate investors with 100 properties in four states who paid their property taxes even though they didn't have any children?

I'm guessing the concept of "pay it forward" is lost on you. You are the beneficiary of what used to be a great school system, great infrastructure, a government that knew how to enforce contracts and protect private property. You had access to the best universities on the planet. And obviously you've done well enough to go the John Jacob Astor route to wealth. Paying your share to help the next generation get up to speed is obviously not part of your plan. It's not fair you say.


It's not about "fair." Life isn't fair. Just be thankful you're one of the people paying instead of one of the people who must receive. (I doubt any thankfulness is going to happen, seeing as you describe your young neighbors as "snot-nosed kids.")

Honestly? Move. You got yours. Cash out, and move to Belize. It's a tax haven. They speak English. The weather is pleasant. The sale of 100 properties in four states will set you up for life in Belize -- with plenty of travel for when you get tired of the tropics.

[wpme]

Libertarian yes, as for Ayn Rand, to be perfectly honest I'd have to google and read to figure out what you are talking about. Personally I consider myself more middle of the road, I live in 2 different communities, I'm certainly not as conservative as one, nor as liberal as the other.

My parents paid for my education thru high school (private schools), I put myself thru college, but after all that I still ended up in what is considered a blue collar job, but lucrative if you are the boss, and its a business that will die with me unless they figure out a way to download brains.

Retirement is coming up soon, yeah I'm going to cash out soon, hopefully before I'm in a box

Oh yeah, I changed the 4 to a 5 because I forgot about one, lol

[Tek_Freek]

Originally Posted by NLVgal

Until you have to put up with someone like me. Who is avoiding it. And meaner than a wet hen

Om, om, om.

Trust me. It will stop.