[zumaboy]

Originally Posted by MediocreButArrogant

Audi Q5 TDI is a better vehicle, I'd sacrifice the mpg to get the Audi over the Mercedes.

Everybody's got car stories, here's mine: I will never, ever own another Audi. I don't care how pretty they make them or how many people swear up and down that they are better than Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, or whatever else. I have lived that, and that is over...

[momofvegasgirls]

Originally Posted by winter-rabbit

I've been vehicle shopping for awhile. I have a family of 5 and no pet.

I have narrowed it down to the 2016 Subaru Outback.

With this car, we are able to:

- get good gas mileage going around town on errands (25/33MPG)
- pack up for camping and hiking trips (with 3 bikes and equipment)
- haul stuff from home depot
- AWD to go off road
- if we get a pet (which I don't think so), we can install a pet separator
- price is $28k vs typical american family spending of $32K on new car.

Families out here, what cars have you considered? Vote now!

Honda Odyssey all the way. We have one and haul me, my Husband, my Mother, and 2 kids with ease, and still have room for 1 more in the center row captains seat. Super comfy. I drive a 2006, which we bought fully loaded, roof, leather,DVD, etc brand new, and I am still driving it. We pack the heck outta that car and take it beach camping, Zion camping, same day round trips to LA for my Neurosurgeon checkups, packed to the gills when we do an IKEA run ro the Covina store. That car has never let us down. When our dog was alive he had plenty of space to fully stretch out his 45lb frame. I have just under 100,000 miles, the car has been paid off ages ago, which I LOVE. It needs some repairs for the first time this year; A/C compressor was replaced and one of the sliding doors is finally giving us problems. But we beat the HECK outta that car!

[MediocreButArrogant]

Originally Posted by BBMW

AWD full tine, 4WD part time.

It's not that simple. What do you call a vehicle with an NP242 transfer case?

AWD implies the front and rear driveshafts can turn at different speeds with varying levels of torque biasing. It could use a viscous coupling or a differential with clutches.

4WD is either fully locked (aka "part time 4WD") or a completely open differential with fixed 50:50 torque split (aka "full time 4WD"). The NP242 transfer case mentioned above can run in part-time and full-time 4WD, as well as 2WD and low-range 4WD with the output shafts locked together.

[yellowsnow]

I have yet to find a car AC that works really well here. If I could, I would buy the car! I've heard they make cars with heavy duty AC but they are only sold in the Middle East.

For 3 big dogs and 2 people, we got a Rav4.

[jet757f]

Toyota Highlander, Toyota Rav4 or Honda Pilot. Don't buy new try to find a resale with low miles. It is really not worth it to buy new.

[beachhead]

Do you know the reason there are so many car manufacturers and so many different models? Because everyone is different. What works for one, does not meet the needs of the next.

Subaru's have a great reputation for reliability, as do Honda's and Toyota's. I never thought I'd live to say this, but Hundai/Kia's have really stepped it up into the mainstream, and I've driven many of their rental cars in the past few years, and I'd consider them were I in the market.

The key things I'd be considering if I were you is that family of 5, how old they are, and how long you plan to have the car. Reason I'd start there is as kids get older, that "family" tends to get bigger on trips, as there's always a friend or two who needs a ride, wants to come along, etc. So, more seats are always a great idea. And if they are smaller, having a versatile entertainment option for them can be a life saver on longer trips. If you're camping out of your vehicle, more space is a very needed thing, whether IN the vehicle, or towing behind it.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about awd vs fwd in the local desert area. Even in sand, fwd will get you just about anywhere you want. In sand, it's all about tire pressure, momentum, and throttle application. Your biggest concern will probably end up being ground clearance. Which is not great in the Subi you mentioned.

We also have a Honda Odyssey that we absolutely love. Our "kids" are grown, with kids of their own. So when they come to visit, we can put one entire family of 5, and grandma/grandpa in one car, and go places and everyone is relatively comfy. The young ones love the video system. We also can take our mom and dad on their errands in comfort because of the low entry height. It does give up ground clearance, so it's not a "great" off roader (I have a full sized pickup for that if needed) but I've never gotten it in a place it didn't drive in or out of. Its very versatile with seat folding and removal, so tons of cargo space. And, it can haul a trailer up to 4500lbs. It's got 140K miles on it, and with only routine maintenance (oil changes, brakes twice, rear shocks once) it's only mechanical issue was a power steering pump, done under warranty. We will be buying another when this one wears out because it fits us so well. It gets 21-22 around town and 25-28 on the road gas mileage wise.

If you are turned off by a mini van, and wanted a little bit more ground clearance, and could live with a little less interior space, and want the honda reliability factor, you can probably get a GREAT deal on a 2015 pilot. It's built on the Odyssey platform, you can get AWD if you want it, and best of all, there is a re-design coming out in 2016. Which means they will be offering some great deals on the car. It's also a 7 year old body style, so it's not a hot seller, which means dealers will deal more. Also, all of the "bugs" should have been worked out by now..

Good luck, and have fun. Car shopping is always an adventure, and often the "hunt" is the most exciting part of the deal. Just get what fits you, and your lifestyle, and meets your reliability/budget needs and wants. Then, you'll be happier with the purchase, and less likely to roll it over in 3 or 4 years, and will save lots of money in the long run. (wish I'da had that advice 30 years ago!)

[SportyandMisty]

Seriously -- consider the Scion xB. Scion is Toyota's youth marque so it is bullet-proof. It is based on the Camry platform, so it is rock-solid & extremely reliable. It will haul all your stuff, and while it is no Jeep, it won't get stuck anywhere you are likely to drive for car camping, hiking, etc. Put ski racks on it & you'll be fine with the OEM tires so long as you are not trying to drive in a snow storm.

I've had one for 3 years. Absolutely nothing has gone wrong requiring a warranty service -- only scheduled maintenance.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by EA

People with 4wd rarely ever use it, and it's even rarer that they actually need it.

Very true. I have a 10 year old Dodge Durango AWD that also has 4WD hi and 4WD lo. I spend a lot of time in the snow (vacation house in Park City where we easily get 300 to 600 inches of snow -- at least in a normal year) and I've never had an issue where I needed to switch from AWD to 4WD. I've done it just for fun, of course, and to make sure it actually works - but AWD is much more than sufficient. No need for 4WD for mere mortals.

[yellowsnow]

I used my 4WD in Utah a little and quite a bit in Minnesota. Here, no need for it.

Another poster brought up the issue of ground clearance and that's a real concern. Las Vegas is the most speed bump happy place on Earth. You can't drive 100ft in a parking lot without going over a speed bump. Even though I was very aware of the bumps and drove painfully slow because of them, the suspension was damaged in both my diesel Beetles. Ground clearance was an issue for me. And visibility is much better if you sit a little higher.

[MediocreButArrogant]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

I have yet to find a car AC that works really well here. If I could, I would buy the car! I've heard they make cars with heavy duty AC but they are only sold in the Middle East.

I've owned and rented a bunch of cars whose A/C handled the Las Vegas heat quite well. I've also owned and rented a few which did not. Unfortunately, I can't tell you how to identify these cars with strong A/C. Trucks and SUVs with tow packages generally have pretty good cooling systems to handle all the extra heat in the engine and transmission, and usually have pretty strong A/C, but it's not a guarantee.

One car I had with a great cooling system was an Acura SUV. I could drive up the hill out of Baker towards Las Vegas at 80+ mph in 120F heat and the water temperature gauge never moved. And I could sit at a long red light and the A/C would blow ice cold even on the very hottest days (it had front and second row vents too, with separate controls for each). The day I took off the front fascia to add transmission and power steering coolers I discovered why. The radiator was probably close to 9 square feet in size, and the A/C condenser mounted in front of it was nearly as big. And since it was a transverse engine, it had two big electric fans and ducting to pull air through both. The cooling system might not have held that much fluid, but the cooling capacity is a function of how much heat the radiator can transfer to the air passing through it, and in that regard this radiator was a great performer.

The emphasis on fuel economy is probably making auto makers shrink radiators and A/C condensers, both for weight savings, and reduced drag (less air passing through radiators). So I wouldn't be surprised if cars with marginal cooling and A/C systems became common. Someone posted here recently about their Nissan (?) complaining about high ATF temperatures and needing to be cooled off before resuming driving. That's nuts.

Another thing you can do is reduce the cooling load on the system, by reducing heat gain. That means tint with high total heat rejection. Dark tint doesn't necessarily imply high heat rejection - blocking the visible spectrum doesn't mean it blocks the IR spectrum. In fact, plenty of cheap window tint films have lousy heat rejection, even in their darkest shades.