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Telling new folks it's great here and that they can drive off on 700 mile round trip weedend getaways all the time seems a little irresponsible.
The vast majority of poeple moving here and the low-middle income people living here simply can not afford the $100+ for gas + food + lodging everytime they want to go outside to do something. Let alone the 5 hour drive each way. They are therefore stuck in a town with very little to do outside. I have over a 100 trips to SoCal since we moved here 13 years ago and have done many,many trips on all the other major roads out of town and the beautiful and wonderful wide open spaces equal this from Vegas(approx.)-
93 - ELYNV - Brown mountains and desert for the first 100 miles
95 - Reno,NV - Brown mountains and desert the whole way
15 - St.George, UT - Brown mountains and desert for the first 120 miles
95 - Kingman, Az - Brown mountains and desert for the first 60 miles(then some trees then some more desert forever.
15 - SoCal - Brown Mountains and desert for the first 250 miles then lovely LA
I for one have grown tired of spending my life driving to places to enjoy the outdoors, but I am happy there are still some that love spending their lives in a car/truck for most of the weekend instead of outdoors enjoying it. This means thankfully most of you will stay in Vegas.
you don't need to trek all over to find things to do outside here. red rock area (not just in the park) and spring mts offer great hikes, several w/in a hour drive, cottonwood and bootleg have great biking trails (both ~30min away), wetlands preserve has several miles of manicured walking trails (off boulder hwy s of trop). and yes, it too hot to hit many of these during the middle of the day, but i explored them in the dawn and dusk during early sept...wasn't that bad (just carry water and stay outta the direct sun...nething up against the mts to the west gets the early shade and cools off as soon as the sun goes down)
you seem to be taking a very pessimistic view of things...for someone claiming to enjoy the great outdoors it really doesn't sound like you've explored your options around here to their fullest. lets just look at the spring mts? have you been to raintree or scrambled on mummy? what about short hikes like mary jane or cathedral? i notice this didn't appear on you list. and where are you getting the 5 hour each way from? St. George is 2, zion 3, DVNP 2 (3 if you want to hit the high country). VoF is what, 1.5 and you made no mention of desert national wildlife refuge or anything in the sheep mts (granted, these require you to be a little rugged, but isn't that kinda what ppl look for when spend time outdoors? maybe that is just me)
i could understand if your complaint was that the land is arid...cause it is...it's a desert. but there is plenty to do, if you make the effort...maybe you just aren't a SW person and would do better w/ a lusher climate. (i won't lie, i do miss rivers and cooler greenery...but i missed that when i lived in LA also)
i guess what i am trying to say is that for the right type of person, there is plenty to do here...just as for the right type of person this is a great town to live in.
vegas_storms does have a good point-- it costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time to drive to the more exotic destinations, and a lot of people don't have the time and money to do that. Heck, if I could, I would drive to San Diego every single weekend (about a 6 hour drive from Phoenix). But guinessjim, you're also right that there's plenty of stuff to explore within an hour of the city. Mt Charleston, anyone? In about 45 minutes from the strip, maybe 30 minutes or less if you live in the northwest part of town, you can be in one of the oldest pine forests in the world. I wish Phoenix offered a nearby mountain like that! In fact, the Las Vegas ski area is actually closer to town than the closest ski areas of Denver are to that city. I think it also comes down to do you like desert or do you not? I personally love desert, and I'm intrigued by the diversity of desert landscapes. Not all desert is "brown" either. The Sonoran desert in Arizona for example is one of the greenest deserts in the world, with a huge diversity of plants and animals. This time of year, believe it or not, there's grass growing in the desert, since it's been raining for the last 2 months. Then not too far outside of Vegas you have Joshua tree forests. If anything, the Mojave desert in southern Nevada looks grey rather than brown. Once you get past Mesquite, heading up north on I-15, it gets extremely scenic as you go through the Virgin River Canyon. St George, UT is in the desert, but it's one of the most scenic places I've ever seen, with the red rocks.
I'm curious, has anybody here been to Great Basin National Park? Would you recommend going there? How far of a drive is that from Las Vegas?
vegas_storms does have a good point-- it costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time to drive to the more exotic destinations, and a lot of people don't have the time and money to do that. Heck, if I could, I would drive to San Diego every single weekend (about a 6 hour drive from Phoenix). But guinessjim, you're also right that there's plenty of stuff to explore within an hour of the city. Mt Charleston, anyone? In about 45 minutes from the strip, maybe 30 minutes or less if you live in the northwest part of town, you can be in one of the oldest pine forests in the world. I wish Phoenix offered a nearby mountain like that! In fact, the Las Vegas ski area is actually closer to town than the closest ski areas of Denver are to that city. I think it also comes down to do you like desert or do you not? I personally love desert, and I'm intrigued by the diversity of desert landscapes. Not all desert is "brown" either. The Sonoran desert in Arizona for example is one of the greenest deserts in the world, with a huge diversity of plants and animals. This time of year, believe it or not, there's grass growing in the desert, since it's been raining for the last 2 months. Then not too far outside of Vegas you have Joshua tree forests. If anything, the Mojave desert in southern Nevada looks grey rather than brown. Once you get past Mesquite, heading up north on I-15, it gets extremely scenic as you go through the Virgin River Canyon. St George, UT is in the desert, but it's one of the most scenic places I've ever seen, with the red rocks.
I'm curious, has anybody here been to Great Basin National Park? Would you recommend going there? How far of a drive is that from Las Vegas?
yeah...think we are discussing apples and oranges here a lot re: our likes and dislikes. re: ski areas, i doubt that ski vegas can't even remotely compete w/ the scope of the CO ski areas near denver (i have never been to ski vegas, but you can get a feeling looking at the trail maps). but it is close and i will be upset w/ myself if i don't get up there at least once this winter (snow is great..i have a friend who works patrol up there) but brianhead can compare (smaller, but w/ less people that kinda evens out) and it may be further, but it is definitely an easier drive (that drive from devner up 1-70 w/ traffic in a storm is remarkably unpleasant). and i think your $ goes further here (don't quote me on that)
i have been to GBNP and i recommend it (then again i will recommend most of the western national parks and reserves). i was there in autumn 2006 - did some REALLY cold camping, but had everything to my self (well the dog and i did). it was cold enough at the lower altitudes that i didn't explore too far, but was beautiful (will go back 4 sure...but as it is a national park, i run into dog issues if too many people are around).
you don't need to trek all over to find things to do outside here. red rock area (not just in the park) and spring mts offer great hikes, several w/in a hour drive, cottonwood and bootleg have great biking trails (both ~30min away), wetlands preserve has several miles of manicured walking trails (off boulder hwy s of trop). and yes, it too hot to hit many of these during the middle of the day, but i explored them in the dawn and dusk during early sept...wasn't that bad (just carry water and stay outta the direct sun...nething up against the mts to the west gets the early shade and cools off as soon as the sun goes down)
you seem to be taking a very pessimistic view of things...for someone claiming to enjoy the great outdoors it really doesn't sound like you've explored your options around here to their fullest. lets just look at the spring mts? have you been to raintree or scrambled on mummy? what about short hikes like mary jane or cathedral? i notice this didn't appear on you list. and where are you getting the 5 hour each way from? St. George is 2, zion 3, DVNP 2 (3 if you want to hit the high country). VoF is what, 1.5 and you made no mention of desert national wildlife refuge or anything in the sheep mts (granted, these require you to be a little rugged, but isn't that kinda what ppl look for when spend time outdoors? maybe that is just me)
i could understand if your complaint was that the land is arid...cause it is...it's a desert. but there is plenty to do, if you make the effort...maybe you just aren't a SW person and would do better w/ a lusher climate. (i won't lie, i do miss rivers and cooler greenery...but i missed that when i lived in LA also)
i guess what i am trying to say is that for the right type of person, there is plenty to do here...just as for the right type of person this is a great town to live in.
All the places you mention are nice to visit but after going there so many times it does get boring and the only alternative is to drive many hours.
I agree with your time estimates as 5 hours was a general time for most places Grand Canyon, SoCal, Ely etc. Utah is the closest place to really get away to somewhere that has plenty of beauty for just about anyone.
For the other two post GBN park is a beautiful place, was up there last summer. They have a wonderful cave tour you can take, simply beautiful, my 9 month old loved it. Go in the mid-summer so you can drive and hike around from the top(the road goes to a little over ten thousand feet. If I remember correctly I would say 6 hours up there but check the map to confirm.
Brianhead(3 hours) is a little small but can have some of the best, dry snow you'll probably ever ski on. There is almost never a crowd up there, so waiting in the lift line just doesn't happen unless your going up during a holiday period.
I would like to disagree that Mt Charleston is even a choice when it comes to skiing for most except the beginners. It's beyond small, overcrowded and the snow up there is well, usaually just sad. It does have great hiking and the view from the summit can not be beat, but there's only so many times you can go there a year and hike without becoming bored.
All the places you mention are nice to visit but after going there so many times it does get boring and the only alternative is to drive many hours.....(gj edit)
....Mt Charleston.....It does have great hiking and the view from the summit can not be beat, but there's only so many times you can go there a year and hike without becoming bored.
i apologize if i am off base with this, but i am calling out out here. how many of the peaks in the springs have you summited? have you been up multiple routes on mummy? what about griffith or fletcher or bonanza? there are others that i can't remember off the top of my head. i'll be impressed you you can say you've bagged all of them...and confused if you still claim them to be boring.
the reason i bring this up is that you never say anything about anything in the spring mts other than charleston? and speaking of that, have you done the full loop? still bored?
what about the sheep mts? i have yet to explore over there, but from the pictures i have seen and the personal accounts from friends i can't wait.
just curious....
Last edited by guinnessjim; 01-28-2008 at 03:36 PM..
i apologize if i am off base with this, but i am calling out out here. how many of the peaks in the springs have you summited? have you been up multiple routes on mummy? what about griffith or fletcher or bonanza? there are others that i can't remember off the top of my head. i'll be impressed you you can say you've bagged all of them...and confused if you still claim them to be boring.
the reason i bring this up is that you never say anything about anything in the spring mts other than charleston? and speaking of that, have you done the full loop? still bored?
what about the sheep mts? i have yet to explore over there, but from the pictures i have seen and the personal accounts from friends i can't wait.
just curious....
yes I have summited, although most of these I don't really consider challenging enough to say summited, most have very nice trails and 1000's of people "summiting" them. The ones around here that I can remember off the top of my head anyways are:
Bonanza - just over 10,000ft(10,400 if I remember)
No I don't mind you asking or think your off based, it's just that most people around town have only heard of Mt. Charleston and think of that as that whole mountain range to our west.
Griffith- just over 11,000ft
Mack's Peak - just over 10,000ft
Mcfarland -10,700
Mummy -11,500 aslo thee other four Mummy peaks - mummy nose, mummy toe, mummy forehead, mummy chin(yes their real)
north sister
south sister
willow peak.
All basically between 9,500ft & 11,600ft
yes I have summited, although most of these I don't really consider challenging enough to say summited, most have very nice trails and 1000's of people "summiting" them. The ones around here that I can remember off the top of my head anyways are:
Bonanza - just over 10,000ft(10,400 if I remember)
No I don't mind you asking or think your off based, it's just that most people around town have only heard of Mt. Charleston and think of that as that whole mountain range to our west.
Griffith- just over 11,000ft
Mack's Peak - just over 10,000ft
Mcfarland -10,700
Mummy -11,500 aslo thee other four Mummy peaks - mummy nose, mummy toe, mummy forehead, mummy chin(yes their real)
north sister
south sister
willow peak.
All basically between 9,500ft & 11,600ft
gratz....i am a bit jealous at this point. i look fwd to getting to them as the snow melts. thx for taking that q in the spirit it was asked, not as a confrontation.
yeah, i know of the mummy ( i have a friend who loves attempting different routes up it). and am familiar w/ the misconception that the whole of the spring mts are "mt. charleston". that was part of my reason for asking if you'd actually explored them. have you done any exploratory hikes (e.g. bushwack w/ a topo and a dream )...might open up new life for old hikes.
how about the sheep mts? i know they aren't as high (<10k i think), but my understanding is they are less accessible and more rugged. and anytime i can get up above 7000 i get happy (i assume there are pondeBullBoxer31 up there).
Correction: the speed limit on interstates in Nevada outside of town is 75; within a certain distance of towns of over a certain population which I think is 50,000, it is 65. Of course you won't find any towns with populations like that anywhere outside of the metro areas of Reno and Las Vegas. Speed limit on other rural highways is 70 unless otherwise posted. Again, the state did it's best to return to no maximum speed limit except where necessary but the Federal government threatened to take away Federal highway funds if we didn't set one. This was after they did away with the 55 MPH max which was set by Nixon during the fake energy shortage in the 70's. Prior to that the speed limit in Nevada was "whatever is safe and prudent for the road conditions". I don't suggest that it is OK to speed, only that most people do out in the cow counties. One of the nice things about Nevada is that there are NOT many, many, many, many small towns all over the place. There are quite a few place names that when you get there you find it's only a junction, or a ghost town where there might have been a mine in another century. Of course there are SOME small towns in Nevada, and you will know when you get to one, and you will see the posted speed limit, and hopefully won't need someone on this forum to tell you when you need to slow down.
My point is that Nevada is NOT congested with one little town after another every couple of miles like you find in small eastern states. Most people who come here are usually pleasantly surprised that they CAN take weekend trips of much longer distances than they could "back home". You are not going to find a traffic jam between here and Caliente, or Tonopah, or Round Mountain, for instance...or anyplace else outside of the Reno or Las Vegas Metro area in the 7th largest state in the country. And for what it's worth, I have made many, many, many, many 700 mile weekend trips in Nevada...even further than that. A lot of us like the way the desert looks with it's brown mountains and desert.
The roads are better now, but when I was growing up in West Virginia, a typical, congested, small eastern state, it was a major undertaking of many hours duration to drive to Ohio, 65 miles away, or to Pittsburgh, 105 miles. Even a trip to the next town 20 miles away was a logistical problem. Even with better roads back east it still isn't easy to get around. People from other states are not used to the wide open spaces that we have, and the concept of being able to drive long distances with very little hassle, whether WE think they can afford it or not.
Like Guinness Stout said, it isn't a hard concept to grasp, that we are CENTRAL to many, many, many, many nice things that are easy to reach. If you can't afford the gas...well...too bad...but those places are still there for your enjoyment if you are able to enjoy anything.
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