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Sure whatever you say. People having to drive an extra 13 miles to use an airport is so friendly to the environment. Only you think it's an advantage. Trust me 95% of the 3 million residents of the Denver area hate the location of the airport.
95% of Denver residents hate the location of DIA?? That's one of the things I love about this site: everyone makes up their own statistics. Trust you? Hardly.
I do not think that having to drive an extra 13 miles is "an advantage": getting a noisy, dangerous and polluting airport out of harms way is a necessity. And when you can make money off it, it's an economic necessity. Got a problem with that?
You can park for free at the South Strip Transfer Terminal. From there you can take Route 109 to the next stop, which is just outside Terminal One at McCarran. It takes about 6 minutes. This is a 24 hour service. During the day it runs every 15 to 20 minutes. The cost is $2.00 ($1.00 for seniors). The McCarran Airport inter-terminal shuttle can get you to Terminal Three from Terminal One.
Also from the SSTT, you can take 'Deuce on the Strip' which has stops from Mandalay Bay on the south end of the strip to Stratosphere on the north end. It continues north all the way to Fremont Street Experience. This is also a 24 hour service. It runs every 15 to 20 minutes. the cost is $6.00 for a two hour pass, $8.00 for a 24 hour pass, or $20.00 for a three day pass.
Now answer this: Given the amount of hoofing, waiting and whatevers, and the fact that there are alternatives, would you ever use it? I have, but for investigative purposes, not transportation. The McCarran part was a lonely trip, but when you get to the Strip, it can get busy. I love the part where the driver just pulls over and takes a 15-minute nap.
"McCarran's status as primarily an origin and destination airport (rather than a hub) makes relocating it far away more problematic."
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Who cares about whether an airport is an origin airport or a destination airport? You have to get to it and you have to get from it, easily and comfortably. Explain how relocating McCarran would be problematic
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I don't think this was understood. Origin/destination is one term, and O/D versus connecting is a big deal. O/D and competition is the reason no one airline dominates airports like LAS or LAX, and conversely the reason fortress airports like CVG, MSP, or DEN in its initial first few years had extremely high prices.
Denver has a high percentage of connecting traffic, with three airlines using it as a hub, plus an enormous geographic catchment area. Denver's long standing status a hub (back then for Continental) and Stapleton's limited capacity affecting delays across the the country, was one of the reasons for the relocation. Las Vegas is a big city, but due to geographic location and nature of its industry focuses heavily on O/D traffic for its visitors (and residents obviously), which means accessibility is paramount and top of mind. The economic driver of transiting pax is not there. Las Vegas also faces almost zero weather issues, so the argument for better functionality in inclement weather is not there. Both of those reasons mean more opposition and challenges to relocation.
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Who, with their 'right head' would use transit of any kind or for to get to or from an airport. Let's see. Walk pulling two pieces of luggage 5 blocks to bus stop. Wait in snow storm for bus. Lug luggage onto bus. Two transfers later and more walking and waiting you're at the transit hub. Another leg gets you to the airport curb. Walk (if you can) to check in.
It's not that complicated. If you're dragging a steamer trunk in a blizzard, of course I'd opt for Uber-but really transit is not challenging for most of the world's populace.
Here in Denver I've taken Uber, bus, off-site parking, and every method possible over the years. Getting dropped off at a local train station is far less unweildy than parking at our off-site lots (also in the snow and rain at times) and riding their shuttle buses to the terminal, which don't even drop you off at check in level here.
Also people use transit to access to airports all over the world. Most have simple solutions to their own "last mile" issue; Uber, family drop off, etc. And people make the same "time/cost/convenience" calculation all the time. Recently in Bangkok I used a taxi for a late night arrival after a long flight. A week later I arrived from a domestic trip at 5pm and opted for the train into the city- which was much cheaper, and avoided bad traffic.
Aside from the stupid branding, Denver's train is an excellent resource, a predictable and smooth ride, and drops you off one escalator ride below security. For some people the train here works, for others it may not be cost effective or they have an aversion to transit for whatever reason. If I have a 7am flight with a friend, then a split Uber is more time and cost economical. If I'm traveling at 10am, solo, during rush hour or for long period where parking fees add up, the train is ideal.
I've taken the airport train four times already and returning a week ago Monday night it was packed with travelers, and only two workers in my car. Just because it doesn't work for one person doesn't mean it's a waste for others. I compare it to stadiums and suburban parks that I pay/paid taxes for. I rarely or will never use them, but they benefit my state in the people in it. And in turn those residents cover expenses I may utilize frequently and they may not.
Last edited by jamesdenver; 05-10-2016 at 07:14 PM..
One thing most of you are missing is the fact that Vegas, like the material girl, constantly reinvents itself. Example, right now, the impending implosion of the Riviera, making way for an expansion of the Convention Center. Bigger, Better, Boom!
Except in the case of McCarran, in addition to bigger, better (and no Boom!), we get more profitable and we boot the noise and pollution.
Isn't that 'win-win'?
In fact, there are P-n-R lots in Vegas. I've used Westcliff several times. It takes about 80 minutes. Add in the drive from home, the parking, the schelping, 2 hours-plus. Or 20 minutes by car.
And there are public transporters (two of them) along the Strip, the Deuce (double decker) bus and the ACE (articulated) bus. If you really like adventure, you might also consider our 'shake, rattle 'n roll'-Monorail, but only if you can find your way to a station. I don't wish that on anyone. Especially if they're carrying luggage.
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Originally Posted by Cold Warrior
RTC has this covered.
You can park for free at the South Strip Transfer Terminal. From there you can take Route 109 to the next stop, which is just outside Terminal One at McCarran. It takes about 6 minutes. This is a 24 hour service. During the day it runs every 15 to 20 minutes. The cost is $2.00 ($1.00 for seniors). The McCarran Airport inter-terminal shuttle can get you to Terminal Three from Terminal One.
Also from the SSTT, you can take 'Deuce on the Strip' which has stops from Mandalay Bay on the south end of the strip to Stratosphere on the north end. It continues north all the way to Fremont Street Experience. This is also a 24 hour service. It runs every 15 to 20 minutes. the cost is $6.00 for a two hour pass, $8.00 for a 24 hour pass, or $20.00 for a three day pass.
Thanks for the correction. I am only a semi-local and thus have not had enough exposure yet to big chunks of the city.
Denver's train is an excellent resource, a predictable and smooth ride, and drops you off one escalator ride below security. Just because it doesn't work for one person doesn't mean it's a waste for others.
Once you get to the train and have an hour to spare, sure, it's a predictable and smooth ride.
But it's the getting to the train that has me puzzled. The way I see it, unless you've got someone to get you to the train, you've still got that walk rolling your luggage from home over and through the elements (heat, wind, snow) to the bus that takes you to the bus that takes you to the train that takes you to the train. Seems to me, the only way to fly is to drive first.
But it's the getting to the train that has me puzzled.
Seriously? Of course a train, BRT or whatever rapid transit won't stop within a few blocks of everyone's front door. So you get a quick ride to the closest station - that's complicated? I mean people all over the world do this. I do it, I see it everywhere, it's not challenging.
You're not obligated to take your local city bus. I was staying with friends in Utrecht, who live outside the main town center. The morning I left they dropped me off at the train station (a five minute drive from their house). I bought a ticket and caught the train to Schiphol, right under the terminal. Conversely a few years back I was headed to Schipol from central Amsterdam with my young niece, and more than a few bags, so we took an expensive taxi for convenience.
I travel to Chicago often and do the exact same thing (as do many, many, people). I'll walk a few blocks to the Blue Line, but in inclement weather I grab an Uber. And if I have more than my standard carry on (or if one is traveling with convention gear or a big family) it makes more sense to Uber/taxi all the way. At DCA it's mixed: It's close enough an Uber cost outweighs the transit time. But I've taken the metro to downtown DC upon arrival during rush hour.
Especially when an airport is far from the city (Denver, Dulles,) or impeded by heavy traffic (O'hare, Heathrow, well Denver and Dulles as well) a quick ride/drop off to a train station is preferable to sitting in traffic all the way to the airport. Here in Denver I'd much rather take an extra 10-15 minutes waiting for the train to airport than have a family member drive me all the way (and then drive back solo) or a coworker after work.
Unless someone is intimidated by any sort of public transit or frightened by the concept of a ticket machine I can't fathom how it's a sisyphean ordeal to move one's self from residence/work to a nearby commuter platform.
Last edited by jamesdenver; 05-11-2016 at 01:49 PM..
95% of Denver residents hate the location of DIA?? That's one of the things I love about this site: everyone makes up their own statistics. Trust you? Hardly.
I do not think that having to drive an extra 13 miles is "an advantage": getting a noisy, dangerous and polluting airport out of harms way is a necessity. And when you can make money off it, it's an economic necessity. Got a problem with that?
You say I make stuff up, but you are the one telling us it's a necessity to agree with your utter nonsense. Don't believe me, ask some residents and find out if they prefer going that far out of their way to get to the airport. For a year I commuted between Vegas and Denver and hated the location. It's not an advantage, it's a hassle.
Don't believe me, ask some residents and find out if they prefer going that far out of their way to get to the airport. Don't believe me, ask some residents and find out if they prefer going that far out of their way to get to the airport.
I'm a Denver resident, and I don't mind. And I'm at the airport average three times a month. As I've said here and to others: The extra minutes you spend on I-70 and Pena are more than given back by the efficiency provided by airport operations. That means less delays inside the airport, and on the airfield.
DIA is well designed (all concourses behind security for example), aesthetically pleasing, spacious, and simple - albeit on a large spread out area. But - that enormity is what makes it an advantage, not a hassle.
With rare exceptions (massive snowstorms or the few train shutdowns) most delays are usually the fault of the airline, rather than airport operations.
The same could not have been accomplished on Stapleton's property.
*edit to add example: I was arriving on a Southwest flight last Monday night, landing on runway 35. We had a really long rollout, and my seatmate looked up a little concerned we weren't stopping. We were rolling out to grab a taxiway adjacent to the concourse, taxiing over to the gate without even stopping. Granted it was 11:30pm, but that doesn't happen at LAX or MDW, where you might sit 15-20 minutes waiting for and maneuvering around other traffic. Also - the lack of intersecting runways offers a huge safety benefit as well.
Last edited by jamesdenver; 05-11-2016 at 03:46 PM..
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