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Haha, yeah, you people think you pay so many taxes, yet Nevada openly advertises itself to all the surrounding states by saying, "Leave your state and come live in Nevada...we have some of the best tax benefits in the country". Hmm let's see...no franchise tax, no corporate tax, no personal income tax, no gross receipt tax, no inventory tax, no inheritance tax and EXTREAMLY low property tax. Don't worry, the $59 dollars in tax the government uses from your $20,000 a year bartending job/pool cleaner job/freeway construction worker job isn't going to hurt you.
The truth is you guys don't know what the hell being taxed is really like. Your state actively recruits people from the surrounding areas to come live in Nevada, especially all of us Californians you seem to hate...the same people that bring the real money to your state, because the existing citizens don't really contribute anything significant. If it wasn't for the tourism and all of us transplants bringing real money into Nevada, Las Vegas probably would have crashed and burned a long time ago. You NEED people to come into your state to spend money in order to survive, and an NFL team is a great ally in that effort. Further on that point, isn't the proposed public tax going to be taken from an increased HOTEL TAX? Meaning all of us tourists and transplants that come and stay in Nevada will actually be sporting the bill for YOUR stadium.
Oh I know all about what "real" taxation is, having escaped from commieland at the end of last year. I paid enough in taxes last year to live a reasonable life outside of what was once what everyone else aspired to.
You do make a good point in that Las Vegas needs tourism. But is it wise to continually squeeze those who want to come recreate here? I will tell you that between the oppressive taxation of our income in commieland, and the way prices have been raised here in Las Vegas over the past 10 years or so, what was once an affordable get away had turned into competition for a real vacation, and often lost in our household. What's the tipping point where a lot more people decide to vacation somewhere else? Is it that stadium tax?
Don't you think the state (read citizens/taxpayers) will have to guarantee the funding, even if it comes from hotel taxes? And when we get the next depression/recession and tourists don't have the money to recreate here, where's the money for this grand stadium going to come from? Or perhaps 10 years from now when the raiders get a better offer from some other city because the new stadium is, well 10 years old and someone else has a prettier one, who's gonna finsish paying off this mortgage? Certainly not all those tourists, since they'll be going to some other city (Just ask St. Louis how that works for them).
I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to have a stadium, or even an NFL team. It's just a very poor investment, and public money should not in any way be put at risk in order to make it happen.
It isn't a bad investment. Thousands of Las Vegans will finally be able to see some pro sports at home. I leave Vegas once or twice a year and spend 100's too 1000's of dollars to go visit other cities to see teams play. But know I will be able to spend that money locally. A stadium and NFL team will be a game changer for Vegas.
It isn't a bad investment. Thousands of Las Vegans will finally be able to see some pro sports at home. I leave Vegas once or twice a year and spend 100's too 1000's of dollars to go visit other cities to see teams play. But know I will be able to spend that money locally. A stadium and NFL team will be a game changer for Vegas.
We will already have pro sports even if the NFL comes. The NHL will beat it by several years.
You are in a very minute fraction of the population if you are traveling to see pro sports teams play. And let's think about all those Jaquars, Chiefs, Titans, Bills, Browns, Bengals, Chargers, Colts, Dolphins etc fans that will be flocking to Las Vegas to watch their team play.
How many would you expect to travel? Less than 100 I imagine and if the Raiders are the slightest bit competent there won't be any tickets for them because they will season ticket sell out. The only team I see traveling well to Las Vegas is the Broncos.
We will already have pro sports even if the NFL comes. The NHL will beat it by several years.
You are in a very minute fraction of the population if you are traveling to see pro sports teams play. And let's think about all those Jaquars, Chiefs, Titans, Bills, Browns, Bengals, Chargers, Colts, Dolphins etc fans that will be flocking to Las Vegas to watch their team play.
How many would you expect to travel? Less than 100 I imagine and if the Raiders are the slightest bit competent there won't be any tickets for them because they will season ticket sell out. The only team I see traveling well to Las Vegas is the Broncos.
The stadium will not be full because 'Jaquars, Chiefs, Titans, Bills, Browns, Bengals, Chargers, Colts, Dolphins etc fans' won't come to Las Vegas, and besides, the games will all be sold out 'because they will season ticket sell out.'
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How many would you expect to travel? Less than 100 I imagine
The stadium will not be full because 'Jaquars, Chiefs, Titans, Bills, Browns, Bengals, Chargers, Colts, Dolphins etc fans' won't come to Las Vegas, and besides, the games will all be sold out 'because they will season ticket sell out.'
Poster is assumes all of these people that will travel like him to see these games. You basically agree with my point that it won't happen.
As for the number, what do you think it will be? How many people will travel to Las Vegas from out of the region to see their team? My number here is based on facts from other teams. It is hardly made up. If the Chargers are drawing a couple of thousand Raiders fans from LA in a stadium with plenty of tickets available for every game, how many Bills or Titans fans are coming here buying scalped tickets from season ticket holders, airfare across the country and a Saturday night hotel rate? 100 might be too high.
It seems you agree that number is so small it is completely irrelevant since the goal is season ticket sellouts. This brings us back to the delusion that it will have any effect on hotel occupancy and rates, With no demonstrable effect on tourism, the entire concept is a failure.
Why the need to insult over it? Your post basically says the same thing mine does.
It isn't a bad investment. Thousands of Las Vegans will finally be able to see some pro sports at home. I leave Vegas once or twice a year and spend 100's too 1000's of dollars to go visit other cities to see teams play. But know I will be able to spend that money locally. A stadium and NFL team will be a game changer for Vegas.
We will already have pro sports even if the NFL comes. The NHL will beat it by several years.
You are in a very minute fraction of the population if you are traveling to see pro sports teams play. And let's think about all those Jaquars, Chiefs, Titans, Bills, Browns, Bengals, Chargers, Colts, Dolphins etc fans that will be flocking to Las Vegas to watch their team play.
How many would you expect to travel? Less than 100 I imagine and if the Raiders are the slightest bit competent there won't be any tickets for them because they will season ticket sell out. The only team I see traveling well to Las Vegas is the Broncos.
Green Bay fans will travel strong, Patriot fans will travel strong, 49ers fans will travel strong, cheif fans travel strong, LA rams will be here.
Plus Vegas could host a Man City vs Real Madrid preseason match and we could have a 100k stadium and that wouldn't be enough room.
Major college bowl games will be sold out
We will finally draw some of the major concerts that have passed Vegas up.
Interesting but mostly irrelevant. We cannot seem to learn that Las Vegas is not anywhere else. It has its own unique environment.
The purpose of the stadium is to perfect the strip. The NFL is secondary. The deal needs to be well negotiated but the skills exist to do exactly that.
No other city has the capability to leverage a stadium to the degree that Las Vegas does. Yes the Raiders will draw capacity crowds as sometimes will the UNLV Rebels. But the other things will draw and fill it as well and mostly with out of towners. Add an extra sold out weekend every month or better. And maybe provide the draw to add half a dozen new complexes to the strip.
Poster is assumes all of these people that will travel like him to see these games. You basically agree with my point that it won't happen.
As for the number, what do you think it will be? How many people will travel to Las Vegas from out of the region to see their team? My number here is based on facts from other teams. It is hardly made up. If the Chargers are drawing a couple of thousand Raiders fans from LA in a stadium with plenty of tickets available for every game, how many Bills or Titans fans are coming here buying scalped tickets from season ticket holders, airfare across the country and a Saturday night hotel rate? 100 might be too high.
It seems you agree that number is so small it is completely irrelevant since the goal is season ticket sellouts. This brings us back to the delusion that it will have any effect on hotel occupancy and rates, With no demonstrable effect on tourism, the entire concept is a failure.
Why the need to insult over it? Your post basically says the same thing mine does.
You are the one assuming people won't travel to see their teams. This is generally the biggest issue I see with all the naysayers in here about building a stadium. You are all either not sports fans at all or you just don't know any better because Vegas has never had a pro sports team. The word "fan" is short for fanatic. Fanatics defy logic and sports fans are some of the most fanatical people alive.
I know tons of people who travel for road Bills games. When you live in a place where you start getting winter weather in mid-November, you tend to look for any excuse to go somewhere warm. Las Vegas of course is even more appealing than similarly warm climates games. You're also not even factoring in the transported locals. Every single NFL team has at least one locals bar in Las Vegas. Having a transient population means that there are built-in fanbases for road teams already living in the valley.
Green Bay fans will travel strong, Patriot fans will travel strong, 49ers fans will travel strong, cheif fans travel strong, LA rams will be here.
You're conflating widespread team interest with tourism. When you see a Cowboys road game with lots of stars, those people didn't necessarily travel. This is not college football. Let's pretend you're right though....
Only Buffalo, Houston, Cleveland and Jacksonville played more road games in front of a non-sellout crowd in the last 10 years than the Chiefs. Chief road blackouts include division games at San Diego and Oakland. They were also one of the last teams to have a home blackout before the policy was repealed by the NFL.
Of the other four teams you mention, the most occurring home opponent would be the Patriots every six years unless the two teams got a parody game. The NFC teams would be every 8 years. The 49ers are only marginally better in road sellouts than the Chiefs.
You didn't mention the Steelers. They actually do travel well but would only be here once every six years.
While there are a few cherry picked teams that would bring in 1,000 people perhaps, there are a dozen or more that would bring in nearly zero. Nobody is coming here from AFC South cities to watch a game. Add the Jets, Bills, Bengals, Browns and Ravens to that, as well as most NFC cities.
Cliffs: The Broncos would be the best bet for drawing tourists willing to pay for scalped tickets and make the trek. That game would be annually. The Chargers or Rams may bring a few buses full of fans. Every other team is irrelevant to tourism. It just does not happen on any large scale in the NFL. This is not SEC Football.
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Plus Vegas could host a Man City vs Real Madrid preseason match and we could have a 100k stadium and that wouldn't be enough room.
This is at best a dream.
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Major college bowl games will be sold out
Yes, all one of them every year. We already get one of those although the new stadium would certainly draw better and attract a better match up/bowl title. It is still only one date per year. Maybe we would also get a conference championship.
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We will finally draw some of the major concerts that have passed Vegas up.
Stadiums are poor facilities for concerts. We have far better venues. Out of curiosity I looked at University of Phoenix Stadium, Georgia Dome and Cowboys Stadium. The only concert between them is Coldplay at Cowboys Stadium in a few weeks.
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Mega boxing events when some new stars rise up
Boxing is probably a stretch but UFC could probably fill it up a few times a year.
We're talking about a handful of dates (6-10 maybe) here minus football. plus the Raiders and UNLV. Push that to somewhere in the 25-30-day range. We should build something that will be used less than 10% of the days at massive expense to the tourists?
We have education and infrastructure needs that should come way before we hand billionaires toys.
With that said, give them the $500m it takes to replace the UNLV stadium, give UNLV access for their home games, and I think everyone will be happy. I can't fathom how anyone wants to give them 3x that amount.
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