[BBMW]

A lot of what you're saying is true, but it misses a huge point. Gun restriction, up to and including a full ban, even if it could somehow survive the political process, would have little effect.

One of the great truisms of American history is that bans anything that could be made illegally or sourced overseas are bound to fail. Look at prohibition. Look at the current war on drugs. Not only did these bans fail miserably, they led to the complete loss of control of the commodity, and spawned huge multinational criminal smuggling organization that were very violent and corrupting.

If guns were banned, the Mexican drug cartels would just source them from China and Russia (or learn how to make them, which is not that difficult), smuggle them into Mexico and elsewhere in Central and South America, then smuggle them here. And, of course, they would not limit themselves to what are now legal guns in the US. They'd bring in anything they'd think they could sell. Small submachine guns and hand grenades would probably be very popular items in the black market.

Originally Posted by EA

I don't own nor want a gun. I make more sense than anyone else here. Half the people want more guns. The other half wants less guns because both sides think it's the guns. It's not the guns.
If you miraculously managed to get rid of every gun on the planet, do you think murderers are going to stop murdering? Do you think the white trash wife beater is going to suddenly not want to rage kill his spouse? No, he's just going to use a knife instead.
Do you think the mugger is going to stop mugging people? Nope, he's going to use a knife.
Do you think the problem child is going to stop fantasizing about murdering his classmates? Nope he's going to use a different weapon like a bomb. If you think guns are bad, let some kid set up a couple pipe bombs made out of 10 dollars of home depot materials.
Do you think terrorists are going to give up jihad if they can't use guns? No. they're far more likely to use planes, bombs, and trucks than guns anyway.

Taking away guns or giving people more guns doesn't address the cause of the problem. It's pretty simple stuff.
Step one, comprehensive study on WHO is doing the shooting.

According to my research it's gang members/drug dealers doing the majority of shooting in America.
Step two, address the reason those groups are shooting people.

My research suggest illegal drugs, turf, and poverty are the reasons gang members/drug dealers are shooting people.
Step three, come to a conclusion.

The black market we've created with the demonstrably failed war on drugs is a major contributor to gun violence in America. End the drug war = ending the black market = ending the bulk of the gun violence.



Now that most gun murders are done away with, we can focus our attention on the smaller occurrences of gun violence by returning to step one.

It's such a simple problem to solve if you people would stop with your false dichotomy nonsense we could actually fix our country. But you're not going to do that. The left is going to scream for gun control and gun bans. The right is going to scream for more guns. The middle is going to continue getting shot because the left and right couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag.

[OmegaSupreme]

I think we should ban people, not guns... Oh wait...

[DavieJ89]

Originally Posted by BWNLV

If guns were the answer, wouldn't the US be the safest place on earth?

Well look at Chicago, they have the toughest gun laws in America. Hows that working for them?

[EA]

Originally Posted by BBMW

Gun restriction, up to and including a full ban, even if it could somehow survive the political process, would have little effect.

If you read my other post, I said exactly that and I cited Australia and England.

[Bps401]

Originally Posted by EA

I don't own nor want a gun. I make more sense than anyone else here. Half the people want more guns. The other half wants less guns because both sides think it's the guns. It's not the guns.
If you miraculously managed to get rid of every gun on the planet, do you think murderers are going to stop murdering? Do you think the white trash wife beater is going to suddenly not want to rage kill his spouse? No, he's just going to use a knife instead.
Do you think the mugger is going to stop mugging people? Nope, he's going to use a knife.
Do you think the problem child is going to stop fantasizing about murdering his classmates? Nope he's going to use a different weapon like a bomb. If you think guns are bad, let some kid set up a couple pipe bombs made out of 10 dollars of home depot materials.
Do you think terrorists are going to give up jihad if they can't use guns? No. they're far more likely to use planes, bombs, and trucks than guns anyway.

Taking away guns or giving people more guns doesn't address the cause of the problem. It's pretty simple stuff.
Step one, comprehensive study on WHO is doing the shooting.

According to my research it's gang members/drug dealers doing the majority of shooting in America.
Step two, address the reason those groups are shooting people.

My research suggest illegal drugs, turf, and poverty are the reasons gang members/drug dealers are shooting people.
Step three, come to a conclusion.

The black market we've created with the demonstrably failed war on drugs is a major contributor to gun violence in America. End the drug war = ending the black market = ending the bulk of the gun violence.



Now that most gun murders are done away with, we can focus our attention on the smaller occurrences of gun violence by returning to step one.

It's such a simple problem to solve if you people would stop with your false dichotomy nonsense we could actually fix our country. But you're not going to do that. The left is going to scream for gun control and gun bans. The right is going to scream for more guns. The middle is going to continue getting shot because the left and right couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag.

Japan does pretty well. If we miraculously got rid of every gun on the planet, an overwhelming amount of murders would not happen. And if it stops one mass murder Id say its working.

[Bps401]

Originally Posted by DavieJ89

Well look at Chicago, they have the toughest gun laws in America. Hows that working for them?

You mean a city thats surrounded by multiple cities that I can travel 30 minutes out of, buy a gun, and come right back to Chicago? My what great logic you have

"A study released last year by the city found that almost 60 percent of firearms recovered at Chicago crime scenes were first bought in states that do not require background checks for Internet or gun show sales, like neighboring Indiana and Wisconsin. Of the remaining crime guns, nearly half were purchased at three gun shops just outside the city."

https://www.cityofchicago.org/dam/ci...racingGuns.pdf

[EA]

Originally Posted by Bps401

Japan does pretty well. If we miraculously got rid of every gun on the planet, an overwhelming amount of murders would not happen. And if it stops one mass murder Id say its working.

A few months ago, a single man stabbed 19 people to death and injured 26 others in Japan.


"The country's homicide rate is associated with a stable and prosperous society with low inequality and high levels of development. Young Japanese males now commit only a tenth of the homicides committed by their predecessors in 1955, and the age and sex distribution of victims tend to be uniform across age groups"

From a report on international violence.

There's not much poverty in Japan. Half of Americans are in poverty.
Japan is prosperous. America is not.
Japan has very little inequality. America has an immense amount of inequality.
Japanese schools teach children honor and respect. Japanese people don't want to be arrested. There's a stigma in their culture about being arrested. Meanwhile in America, the opposite is true. Our culture loves prison. Being arrested is cheered and celebrated. Johnny Cash and outlaw country singers, rappers, celebrities, movies, gangs all glorify crime and prison. Our schools actively create prisoners for profits. Private prisons spend millions lobbying to keep their prisons full.
Japan does the opposite. They address the root causes of their problems.
We pour gasoline on fires trying to put them out.
Japan sprays water on the base of the fire and places a metal lid over top to remove the oxygen.

Japan does what I suggest. If you gave every citizen in Japan a gun, they'd still not shoot people because they have no reasons to.

If you took away all of Americas guns, Americans will still shoot people because FU, they won't do what you tell them.

[OmegaSupreme]

Originally Posted by Bps401

You mean a city thats surrounded by multiple cities that I can travel 30 minutes out of, buy a gun, and come right back to Chicago? My what great logic you have

"A study released last year by the city found that almost 60 percent of firearms recovered at Chicago crime scenes were first bought in states that do not require background checks for Internet or gun show sales, like neighboring Indiana and Wisconsin. Of the remaining crime guns, nearly half were purchased at three gun shops just outside the city."

https://www.cityofchicago.org/dam/ci...racingGuns.pdf

boom! drops the mic

[EA]

Oh man. You got me with that. .
Oh wait, you are dead wrong. Guns being easy to buy next door just makes it slightly easier.
Indiana has these easy to buy guns and yet their citizens aren't shooting people. It's almost as if there is a reason chicago citizens are shooting a lot of people.

Wait a minute. Chicago has a massive drug black market. Chicago also has a lot of gangs. Hmmmmmmmm
I wonder if any smart individual deduced and stated that drugs and gangs are the major cause of gun violence in America?


What? Ny also has a huge drug black market and a lot of gangs? NY also has a lot of shootings?
What? It's almost like there's a pattern. Cities with lots of drugs and lots of gangs have a lot of shootings.
Hmmmmm. Sure seems to me to be a drug and gang problem not a gun problem.

[thatsrightfam]

I knew that this could spark a polititard discussion but that honestly wasn't my goal. This city is getting substantially more dangerous even though the Sheriff tells us it's no big deal (just read the LVRJ article). I don't want innocent citizens to be swept up in this violent crime wave. Criminals have guns anyway and use them to rob, murder, home invade, rape, etc. If a law-abiding citizen has a gun too that just gives him or her another opportunity to defend against the criminal. That's all. Studies show that armed citizens have a better survivability rate in violent encounters with criminals than unarmed citizens. Sure there is other very important stuff that helps such as situational awareness, conflict avoidance and deescalation, common sense, etc but sometimes after all that has been applied there is still a "big problem" and that's when you wish you had a gun.