[Cold Warrior]

and the cost of car insurance, and the laws regarding impaired driving, ...

Interesting though, that you think that all these costs make driving free.

[ddrhazy]

Gas and insurance are minuscule costs. Once you buy the car, the economic incentive to drive it as much as possible is there.

You came from LA, a place with higher gas costs. Did it cause people to drive less? Nope. Does Los Angeles have way more streets built? Yup. Did it help with congestion? Nope.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by ddrhazy

Gas and insurance are minuscule costs. Once you buy the car, the economic incentive to drive it as much as possible is there.

You came from LA, a place with higher gas costs. Did it cause people to drive less? Nope. Does Los Angeles have way more streets built? Yup. Did it help with congestion? Nope.

So much to work with here

Gas and insurance are minuscule costs.

For you maybe, but certainly not for most.

Once you buy the car, the economic incentive to drive it as much as possible is there.

Another minuscule cost? There is no economic incentive to drive a car for no purpose.

higher gas costs. Did it cause people to drive less?

Yep. Especially during the oil embargoes of 1973 and 1978.

Does Los Angeles have way more streets built?

Nope. Freeway building came to an abrupt halt during the first administration of Jerry Brown in 1975. Traffic has increased dramatically since. Has congestion increased? Yep.

[ddrhazy]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

So much to work with here




For you maybe, but certainly not for most.




Another minuscule cost? There is no economic incentive to drive a car for no purpose.




Yep. Especially during the oil embargoes of 1973 and 1978.




Nope. Freeway building came to an abrupt during the first administration of Jerry Brown in 1975. Traffic has increased dramatically since. Has congestion increased? Yep.

The average age of a car on the road is around 12 years old. Most cars at that point are really cheap to insure.

If gas costs were truly a motivating factor for people, you would not see record number sales of light pick up trucks and SUVs. I'm sure there IS a gas cost where people would change driving behavior and purchasing decisions, but $1-2/gallon is not it. You'd have to double the cost of gasoline to have a major effect on these metrics.

Freeway building came to an abrupt halt because Los Angeles doesn't have any room left for more roads, unless you want them to build tiered highways which are 5 times more costly than a typical highway.

And yes, there is an economic incentive to drive more. It's called drive till you qualify. You live farther from the workplace so you can afford a house. "Super commuters" have been a thing for decades.

So no. The HOV lane should stay the way it is. That's for the buses and carpoolers as it should be. Dislike it? Live closer to work.

[timothyaw]

Originally Posted by ddrhazy

Wrong. People drive more when there are more roads. Or they will drive during peak times. You cannot build your way out of traffic. Because the road is a free good, people will naturally attempt to exploit that resource more.

I pretty much agree with that. Phoenix hasn't learned that and they're still building. They have one of the best freeway infrastructures in the country. But the more they build the more traffic they have. They'll be opening a new freeway there this fall. It'll help things for a bit, then it'll go right back to congested. It's a vicious cycle. I just don't think the lane needs to be restricted all the time.