[equid0x]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

Your quotation, but my corrections in italics:






Maybe not. Consider the case of coal miners, who are finding that the coal industry is rapidly declining. They have famously been advised to 'learn to code' by one presidential candidate, but even if that were possible, the skills they currently have are no indication of their value as computer programmers.


You also presume that an employee making $28/hr is actually worth $28/hr. In this case, the employer disagreed.

The advice is not necessarily bad although obtuse and tone deaf.

I highly doubt the avg coal miner has the kinda brain conducive to programming, although some may.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by HJ99

If you take a job that only pays enough to live under a bridge or in a dumpster, then what is the point? Better off finding best camping spot you can and guard your possessions.



Apparently employers that pay less than what it takes to live a minimal existance in the community they serve think they deserve endless supply of cheap labor that taxpayer has to pay to house and feed!!!!



Maybe we should pass a law that only those under 18 can take jobs that pay less than what it takes to live in the community? See how that works out for those with such a poor business plan that requires such cheap labor. Can they attract enough affluent teens for their slave labor jobs. From families the parents hand out more in allowance money than what they could ever earn as peon worker?

I dunno about passing a law... but I will agree that many employers and their accounting departments are obsessed with slave wage labor regardless of the negative effects that has on their local communities.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by EA

Companies exist to make money.
Companies do not exist to give you the lifestyle you want.
Jobs pay what they are worth not what YOU want.

I'll break this down as a business owner.

I have a job opening for a mechanic. I charge 100 an hour for mechanic work.
You're probably thinking I should pay the mechanic close to 100 an hour.

In reality, I'm paying 8,000 a month rent. 2,000 a month insurance. 800 a month in utilities. 2,000 a month in supplies.
That is just the basics. There's actually quite a bit more in expenses.
So just the basics cost me 12,800 a month.
There are 160 hours in a month give or take. That is 80 an hour
Which means if I book all 160 hours for that mechanic, there's only 20 bucks an hour left.

So if you followed, you're probably thinking I should pay 20 an hour.

However, 20 an hour doesn't cost me 20 an hour. 20 an hour actually cost me more like 28 an hour.

I can not afford to pay that mechanic 20 an hour if he's only doing 160 hours worth of work a month. It's mathematically impossible. I need that mechanic to do 200 hours worth of work to pay him 20 an hour for 160 hours.

You probably think it's unfair to expect 200 hours of work out of one mechanic. But here's what makes it possible. This is the important bit.
An experienced quality mechanic can bang out 250 hours worth of work in 160 hours because the good mechanic knows faster ways to do things. The mechanic only does 160 hours of work. He just brings more value to the company. I can pay this guy 20 an hour. Because he averages 200 hours worth of work.

"but wait, that's 20,000 and you only need 12,800 to pay the bills. That leaves an extra 7,200."

I also have a service advisor to pay. I also have a cashier to pay. I also have my own bills to pay.
The service advisor is needed to talk to the customers. The cashier is needed to handle payment.
I also have a lawyer to pay. There are many other expenses to running a business.
My personal bills are about $4,000 a month. That leaves 3,200. That's 6.66 an hour for the remaining employees. Suddenly 20,000 doesn't sound like so much money, does it?
I need another mechanic doing another 200 hours worth of work to pay for other employees and expenses.

I have to have parts on hand. I have to have fluids on hand. I have to maintain equipment. I have to buy new tools and equipment. I need to advertise. I need to cover expenses if I can't book 400 hours worth of work. I need to show profit so I can get loans to expand. I need to cover mistakes.
If my guy forgets to tighten the lug nuts and the wheel falls off that's easily 2500 bucks. At minimum I have to pay the insurance deductible for that. If a mechanic calls out I lose money. If a car gets stuck on my lift because I can't get a part quickly it costs me money.


If a mechanic only gets 140 hours worth of work done, that costs me money. That's 60 hours short of goal. That's 6,000 gone.

I can't just pay these guys more because they want to live large. They'd have to work harder to earn more money for me to pay them more.
If my guys routinely did 280 hours of work a month, hell yeah I'll pay them more.
But if they start dropping off to 190 hours a month, I can't drop their pay can I? Nope.

It doesn't matter if a house costs 1,000 a month or 3,000 a month. My business can only afford to pay them so much for the work they're doing. The cost of living is irrelevant. The objective of business is NOT to give people the life they want. It's to profit.

Mechanics know that they're not going to make 200k a year being a mechanic. No mechanic does. Jobs have a value.
As I mapped out, mechanics are worth 20ish an hour. Some get more some get less. But the average is around 20 an hour.
Mechanics are not forced to take mechanic jobs.
Mechanics walk into a business and ASK to have a job. They are offered an amount of money per hour. They can either accept it or walk away. Same is true with every job.
None of it ever has anything to do with the cost of living. It has to do with the cost of business.

If you actually wanted people to have more spending power you'd get rid of taxes.

That 20 an hour could easily be 25 an hour if I didn't have to pay payroll taxes, medicare, and SS on the backend.

But because of taxes he gets only 20 an hour from me and takes home 15 an hour. Then he has to pay taxes on all his purchases and utilities and car and everything else.
So his take home pay after all that is 10 bucks an hour or so.

The take away? It's not on employers to pay for YOUR life.
The government steals half our pay and no one says a word about it.
If you want to have a certain lifestyle it's up to YOU to obtain the skills and or knowledge necessary to EARN that much money. No one is going to hand it to you. You are not owed.

The employee doesn't care what your expenses are.

If you can't afford to pay your employees market rate, then you'll need to either cut costs or raise prices.

$20/hr is hardly "living large" in the year 2020. Your employees pay taxes and have cost of living expenses, too. I would venture to say, even $40/hr isn't living large in the year 2020 although its sure as hell a lot easier than $20/hr. TBH, I think it would be very difficult to live alone and maintain a simple 1BR apt, vehicle, insurance, taxes, food, clothes, etc etc on $20/hr. At $25/hr its probably do-able with no health insurance and no retirement.

The business does not only exist to benefit you.

Its no secret that more experienced employees will do things better and faster than the rookies. That's why you assign the make-work to the rookies and the mind-benders to the guy who's been doing it 20 years.

If you don't give your rookies the opportunity to move up they will leave.

If you don't give your rock-stars the chance to lead they will leave.

If you don't provide your employees with the resources they need to be successful, they will leave.

It IS on the employer to pay for the employee's life. That's what the employer does. If everyone could do it, everyone would be an employer. Running a business is not easy and its not for everyone.

There is a balance there. You need to be giving enough to get your employees to stay but not so much you're going under.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by WisconsinVegasHeights

I was suicidal from 2014 until mid 2018 and somehow the divine saw fit to drop me in the middle of the Mojave desert with no job, no car, no driver's license, no lodging arranged past the initial two weeks and then there is that little detail how my Resume just stops at 08-01-2013.

For some of you, how many times do I have to communicate this to you?

God bless the United States Air Force! God bless Nellis AFB! And in particular God bless the Federal Military Medical Center.

I don't think people are trying to knock you. You made it. Most people don't.

You seem to be experienced and empathetic to these types of problems. Perhaps you have a calling here?

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by HJ99

YOu ignored my point altogether. If you are not paying at least the minimum I need to put a roof over my head and food in my belly in the community where you are doing business, then WHAT POINT IS THERE IN TAKING YOUR JOB? Go find a teenager with a rich daddy to be your mechanic? Or beg your local government to offer your mechanic subsidized housing and food stamps on somebody elses's dime????? Seriously what gives you the right to demand cheap labor in a community with high cost of living? Perhaps your business plan that depends on cheap labor is faulty? Perhaps your customers need to pay more for your services? You are the one wanting govt to subsidize your business by covering cost of living of your employee.

The cost of living here isn't particularly high, but I agree with you. There seem to be a lot of demands of the employees there and not a whole lot of "what I will do for my employees in return."

I'm tangentially interested in this job EA says is available, but honestly, I would never work for him given the display he puts on here. It tells me a world of info about how he runs his business and how he looks at and treats his employees.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by EA

It's not my business to put a roof over your head. It's my business to fix cars.
It's on you to figure out how much YOU need for YOUR roof and take a job that pays that much.

And that's where you're wrong. It absolutely IS your business to put a roof over your employees' heads. No Roof = No Employees.

Originally Posted by EA

Get the government out of the way and everything becomes cheaper AND people get more of their money, the opposite will happen if I follow your suggestion.

Sorry, getting the government out of the way isn't the magic bullet to making your employees happy you seem to think it is.

Your employees' happiness starts with YOU.

Originally Posted by EA

The investment I made gives me the right to OFFER a wage I can afford to anyone willing to take it.
What gives YOU the right to get in our way?

Exactly what investment have you made in your employees? Your investment in the BUSINESS is your problem, not theirs. All I see here is a list of demands made of your employees with little return.

Originally Posted by EA

Jacking up prices is a surefire way to go out of business.
Let me ask you this, is it better to make 20 an hour 40 hours a week or 40 dollars an hour 0 hours a week?

It's up to you, as a business owner, to figure out how to make it work. Stop asking your employees and everyone else what you should be doing. That's your problem. Figure it out.

Originally Posted by EA

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you live with your parents have no idea what it's like in the real world.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say your business is a revolving door of employees you treat like ****. If you're having problems hiring and maintaining decent employees, I suggest you hire a consultant to come in and take an objective look at your books and how you run things, accept their recommendations, and follow them. It sounds like you need it.

[clutchcargo777]

Equid0x has spoken.

[EA]

You can always tell the employees from the employers. Employees have zero clue how things work.

It's ok, I have businesses, y'all don't. You go apply for your little jobs and tell your boss you need him to pay for your lofestyle and see how that works out for you. I'm going to keep doing what I do.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by EA

You can always tell the employees from the employers. Employees have zero clue how things work.

It's ok, I have businesses, y'all don't. You go apply for your little jobs and tell your boss you need him to pay for your lofestyle and see how that works out for you. I'm going to keep doing what I do.

Did you help start a business that got sold later for $2.1 Billion?

Just curious.

To get there, I needed to hire and retain my employees.

I have given you some very good advice, and for free no less.

I think you're a smart guy, EA. What you seem to be missing out on is your "EQ" IMHO. You're not alone. I had to learn it, too.

[jencam]

Just saw that Austin instituted the program to hire homeless to pick up trash. It doesn't solve everything, but every little bit helps.