[robr2]

Originally Posted by longviewJoe

Are you speaking as an attendee or a host?

What elements make Vegas so much more expensive than other cities?

Over the years, I've been on both the exhibitor and the attendee side with the latter being the recent past.

So spending half as much is a stretch but it does cost me more to attend this show in Vegas versus Orlando.
Certain costs are going to be similar - parking and meals at the convention center don't vary much.

It's the silly costs:

- resort fees (and the 13.4% tax on it) even in the winter when there is no resort
- one coffee shop in the lobby where I have to wait in line for 30 minutes for a $15 grande and a croissant
- $25 salads and a beer in the hotel sports book
- parking at the hotel in most cases.

I also attend a show in NYC every year. I've stayed in the city and in CT for that show. It's also expensive but it's NYC - that's expected. But I've been able to stay in hotels there for less than it cost to park my car. I don't get dinged for a resort fee and I can make coffee in my room or walk outside to a dozen coffee shops in a 2 block radius. The show is a quick stroll away and I get a pizza lunch for under $10.

The Vegas show is in Orlando in 2021-22. I can stay at at hotel further away from the show and rent a car as parking at the hotel is free. Flights are cheaper and more frequent from Boston and there are many more reasonable and local dining options when you can away from a consolidated area.

As for exhibiting, it's been years so I can't be specific. I do recall one exhibitor I was working with noted that they were able to pay for the entire show in Orlando for less than drayage and labor in Las Vegas.

[longviewJoe]

Originally Posted by robr2

Over the years, I've been on both the exhibitor and the attendee side with the latter being the recent past.

So spending half as much is a stretch but it does cost me more to attend this show in Vegas versus Orlando.
Certain costs are going to be similar - parking and meals at the convention center don't vary much.

It's the silly costs:

- resort fees (and the 13.4% tax on it) even in the winter when there is no resort
- one coffee shop in the lobby where I have to wait in line for 30 minutes for a $15 grande and a croissant
- $25 salads and a beer in the hotel sports book
- parking at the hotel in most cases.

I also attend a show in NYC every year. I've stayed in the city and in CT for that show. It's also expensive but it's NYC - that's expected. But I've been able to stay in hotels there for less than it cost to park my car. I don't get dinged for a resort fee and I can make coffee in my room or walk outside to a dozen coffee shops in a 2 block radius. The show is a quick stroll away and I get a pizza lunch for under $10.

The Vegas show is in Orlando in 2021-22. I can stay at at hotel further away from the show and rent a car as parking at the hotel is free. Flights are cheaper and more frequent from Boston and there are many more reasonable and local dining options when you can away from a consolidated area.

As for exhibiting, it's been years so I can't be specific. I do recall one exhibitor I was working with noted that they were able to pay for the entire show in Orlando for less than drayage and labor in Las Vegas.

You haven't convinced me of anything here.

You acknowledge it's not really half the cost.

Orlando has resort fees too I believe. Maybe not as much as Vegas but the hotels aren't as nice so that's fair.

It's easier for YOU to get to Orlando but I live on the west coast and Vegas is WAY easier from out west with non-stops from EVERY single half-way decent airport anywhere west of the Mississippi.

You talking about going to Orlando and staying outside of town somewhere. Yes, that works in a place like Orlando where there is no there there. Vegas has the strip. Orlando has Disney World. Lol. Disney is great for trips with the kids but for "business trips" with the guys Vegas is it and we aren't staying in the 'burbs!

Above all else Vegas has casinos, shows, and entertainment that Orlando does not have.

I just don't see Orlando killing off the Vegas convention business.

[longviewJoe]

Originally Posted by Dom Cobb

The inverse of this is with companies going remote and teams and people with less and less face time, it makes sense to host an annual meeting or convention for everyone to meet in one place. People crave and need human interaction to a certain extent.

Plus, it’s an expense that is deductible for a balance sheet that is better than fixed costs like offices, so companies can massage the books for Wall Street.

Short run, yes it’s not great. But medium run there could be a really great opportunity if someone markets this appropriately to companies.

Yes, totally agree. 2022 is going to be a huge year in Vegas. Just need to get through it until then!

[cowherjaw]

When the last recession hit, many tech conferences went virtual instead of live as well. The virtual experience is passable but it doesn't measure up to the live one, so when the recovery came, live conferences came back as well. This stuff is cyclical.

[robr2]

Originally Posted by longviewJoe

You haven't convinced me of anything here.

You acknowledge it's not really half the cost.

Orlando has resort fees too I believe. Maybe not as much as Vegas but the hotels aren't as nice so that's fair.

It's easier for YOU to get to Orlando but I live on the west coast and Vegas is WAY easier from out west with non-stops from EVERY single half-way decent airport anywhere west of the Mississippi.

You talking about going to Orlando and staying outside of town somewhere. Yes, that works in a place like Orlando where there is no there there. Vegas has the strip. Orlando has Disney World. Lol. Disney is great for trips with the kids but for "business trips" with the guys Vegas is it and we aren't staying in the 'burbs!

Above all else Vegas has casinos, shows, and entertainment that Orlando does not have.

I just don't see Orlando killing off the Vegas convention business.

I don't need to convince you - I was just stating my experiences.

Yes some Orlando hotels have resort fees but not all. If they do, they are typically small with the highest ones at places like the Waldorf or the Swan. In Las Vegas, they all have them - even the luxurious Circus Circus and Flamingo - which tack on $35+ on $25 hotel room.

Yes it is easier for me to get to Orlando. The issue with Vegas flights from the east coast is that often one has to connect in SFO or LAX which adds 3-4 hours to my trip. Trust me - the west coast folks complain about getting to Orlando or even Chicago.

TBH, most of Vegas is wasted on me. I don't gamble, I prefer a Broadway show versus a Vegas show, I like exploring the non tourist parts of the cities I visit for trade shows, I can shop at home.

No Orlando isn't going to kill off Vegas convention business. The original point was that there are plenty of places that can host multiple shows and meetings at the same time that offer other outside adventures.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by robr2

And that's the rub - it's only one of a dozen locations that could easily handle multiple meetings, conventions, trade shows, etc at the same time.

Business meetings have somewhat different physical infrastructure requirements compared to trade shows. For trade shows, I agree with you. For large business meetings, I disagree - from personal experience & knowledge; there are only a handful of locations with the appropriate infrastructure, and Las Vegas is one of them.

Regardless, it will be a few years, at least, before demand for large business meetings resumes.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by C2BP

Yes, convention business will never be the same. Zoom app. is just the beginning. Expect much better platforms and app’s. Virtual and online conventions are the future.

Again, "never" is a very, very long time.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by Dom Cobb

The inverse of this is with companies going remote and teams and people with less and less face time, it makes sense to host an annual meeting or convention for everyone to meet in one place. People crave and need human interaction to a certain extent.

Very true.

When thinking about annual sales conferences where the HQ brings in the broad field sales organization once/year for a week-long series of executive presentations and breakout meetings focused on product road maps, technologies in the pipeline, roll-out of new strategic partnerships, etc etc - it is a mistake to think all of that can be replaced with Youtube videos or Zoom meetings. An important thing that happens at sales conferences comes from the perspective of the individual sales reps. They are absorbing not just information - which can imperfectly be conveyed via Zoom - but also something intangible. They are making career decisions each year, and those decisions need information & contacts that are not available via Zoom. They are making a decision each year: "Should I continue to sell for company X? Or should I bail and go sell for a competitor? Or should I leave the field and come to HQ for a rotation in product management? Should I retire?" Sales reps, at those annual face-to-face gatherings, also make invaluable connections with product marketing engineers, technical marketing engineers, sales support, etc etc so that the following week they can make more effective phone calls back to the factory to engage those resources to help cement their longstanding relationships with large customers, etc - and help get customer feedback back to the factory to impact product roadmaps, etc.

In theory, none of that requires face to face, but in practice it does.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

[C2BP]

Originally Posted by longviewJoe

Yes, totally agree. 2022 is going to be a huge year in Vegas. Just need to get through it until then!

Analyst: Las Vegas COVID-19 recovery may take 18 to 36 months
https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...onths-2083247/

[luckydogg]

As a person who is attending multiple zoom/ms teams/skype meetings daily for business, I can say with absolute certainty that this is never going to replace all large in-person meetings. Especially with groups over 100 people, virtual meetings end up not being interactive for everyone, and you might as well watch a pre-recorded Youtube video. In fact one of the week long trade shows I attend with 25,000+ attendees (was in Vegas for 2018) cancelled this year's and switched to virtual - however I just found out they cancelled the virtual conference because they realized it just wouldn't have worked virtually. These apps just can't replace being in a venue mingling and interacting with people face to face. It's the same issue that Universities are having with students and forcing online classes, it's just not realistic to make everything virtual.

The Vegas convention business just needs to do what it can to conserve cash until people can travel again, the business will come back because in many cases it's a business necessity.