[rpachigo]

More than 234,000 or 58.2 percent of Las Vegas homes with a mortgage are underwater, according to a report by First American CoreLogic. An additional 14,088 mortgages, or 3.5 percent, are near that point, bringing the total to 61.7 percent of all outstanding mortgages.

Builder: It is ‘rational’ for homeowners to walk away - Las Vegas Sun

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by rpachigo

More than 234,000 or 58.2 percent of Las Vegas homes with a mortgage are underwater, according to a report by First American CoreLogic. An additional 14,088 mortgages, or 3.5 percent, are near that point, bringing the total to 61.7 percent of all outstanding mortgages.

Builder: It is ‘rational’ for homeowners to walk away - Las Vegas Sun

Their findings are not likely much good. Requires that they know how much each home owes and what it is worth. Neither is easily doable. See Zillow for half the problem.

At the moment the tax base says there are 13,144 Single Family Homes owned by the banks. Of these 4118 are pending sale, and 5164 are for sale. That leaves 3862 bank owned and not listed.

The 5164 is down from 6500 at the start of the year. February number are still not complete so it is still not possible to say how many homes went to bank ownership in February.

March sales continue to strengthen. At least upper two thousands and probably at least close to three. So about double last years sales again.

Gonna be an interesting year.

[nwlv]

It amazes me that the media never talks about the number of auto owners, who are underwater.
American made cars, typically lose half of their value in two years. Doesn't seem to be a problem for those 2007 Escallade drivers.

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by olecapt

Their findings are not likely much good. Requires that they know how much each home owes and what it is worth. Neither is easily doable. See Zillow for half the problem.

Not easily doable? They've been able to calculate median home values for decades. Corelogic is no Zillow or Trulia. Amongst other services, they provide loan data and mortgage analytics to lenders/servicers. Their customer base is entiely different than Zillow, Realtytrac, Foreclosure.com, etc.

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[olecapt]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

Not easily doable? They've been able to calculate median home values for decades. Corelogic is no Zillow or Trulia. Amongst other services, they provide loan data and mortgage analytics to lenders/servicers. Their customer base is entiely different than Zillow, Realtytrac, Foreclosure.com, etc.

To properly value a home requires an appraiser and 8 hours work...for a home. Generally considered valid for only a few weeks. Even the much lesser BPO takes a couple of hours and is much easier and more accurate if you have actually seen the place.

Attempts to automate the process have pretty much failed. See Zillow and others.

That accurate records exist of home values and mortgage debts is easily demonstrated by the absolute inability of any to price the securitized obligations held by the various financial institutions.


I would think Corelogic and its data is part of the problem rather than part of the solution. Believing these guys is how we got to this place.

[airics]

Originally Posted by nwlv

It amazes me that the media never talks about the number of auto owners, who are underwater.
American made cars, typically lose half of their value in two years. Doesn't seem to be a problem for those 2007 Escallade drivers.

Sorry, being in the car business for the last 15yrs and owning my own dealership, i have to chime in because you are way way off!

The average american car loses 40% of its value (from sticker) when you drive off the lot! After 2 years, its closer to 70%..
At my dealership in Cleveland, we are selling 2008 Chrysler Sebrings or Dodge Avengers with 20k for $8500!! Sticker was $24800

[RedRockAAAA]

Do people really pay 'sticker' price?

It would seem to me that what they actually pay vs what the car resells for in 12, 24 and 36 months would be more realistic, just sayin.

With both houses and cars ... the data is out there ... sales tax paid on car, sale recorded with county etc, but I doubt anyone does their real leg work before giving numbers in any article.

Airics, I thought you had already made your move? Do we need to welcome you again?

[gulfer]

Great question RedRock. Airics, care to share some secrets for the average consumer?

[airics]

If i'd get a friggin job out there, i would have been there yesterday! I have about 25 cars remaining in inventory.. my lease at my location is up the end of June...

Realistically, before this whole mess started.. and lets take the 2008 dodge avenger with 20k as an example, you could get the car for about 8% below sticker before any rebates... however, now that Chrysler has 6 months of 2008s still left, they have to really bargain... It didnt help that consumer reports tore them apart in the last issue because of their quality... so, lets say the sticker was 25k (round it up, lets make it easy), before any rebates you could buy the car for around 22-23k and it was an average deal... now chrysler is in trouble so realistically you can buy the car for around 18-19k with all the incentives (remember this is a SXT top model).. so you buy it for 19 plus tax, 20,5 out the door, drive it for less than a year... time to trade it in.. since this is a car that very very few dealers even want, they will pay rough book (black book - not kellys, edmunds, etc.. need to be a dealer to get the book)... rough book currently is $7500.... you've owned it for less than a year and it cost you $13k to drive it!
now on the other hand, lets take a Honda Element. In 08, you buy it for around 21k... drive it 3 years.. 50k.. you still get $13k.. its all about supply and demand.. and quite honestly, the american cars don't have it...
I see cadillacs all day long at the auction (10yrs old) for around $2000. Remember, these cars were $30000-$40000 ten years ago.... I see the same 10yr old honda accord at the auction for $5000, they were $15k in 1998

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by olecapt

That accurate records exist of home values and mortgage debts is easily demonstrated by the absolute inability of any to price the securitized obligations held by the various financial institutions.

Financial institutions are required to value their loan portfolios every single quarter. To assert that these institutions are unable to do so, or that it would take 8 hours per house to value the underlying homes, is absurd. If they were allowed to throw up their hands and say, 'we don't know what these homes are worth", then there would be no mark to market accounting controversy. Mark to market accounting would not exist if it wasn't possible to determine market value every single quarter.