[GailMI]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

Based on the numbers provided in your original post, it looks like you put 3.5% down (on $133K) and rolled the closing costs into the loan. Accounting for the mortgage interest deduction, your monthly mortgage payment & HOA dues were comparable to rent. So, when you walk away the end result is -

GailMI (-$5,000)
GailMI's lender (-$75,000)

Yay, the bank won it all!

A) They should have known better. I, on the other hand, am "dumber than a 2nd grader."
B) If I take on -75,000 it will mean, literally, going to my grave in the hole. I think the billions the banks made on the way to this slide should hold them over for awhile.

It's a simple difference of opinion as to who should take on the majority of the suffering in this whole situation: the lower and middle class folks or the money mongers who caused it. We obviously disagree. Fortunately, I'm a infrequent visitor to this forum, so you can keep up your side of the argument a LOT better than I can. You seem to spend a lot of time here. So, actually, I guess---you're the big winner in the whole situation. You can insult people who are in trouble and trying to salvage what's left of their lives and you can feel good about being so full of what's good and right. Congrats.

[gulfer]

Hmm...not even sure I want to post after this. I've said my part of it many times, but here there are NO WINNERS. But I tend to disagree that it is an opinion on who's to blame. You borrowed the money, and this is your choice on how to deal with it.
Is a money monger someone who works hard at school, in business, etc... and actually makes a lot of money? Is it someone who took risk by investing in things that gave a large percentage of returns? Is it someone that put thier money out there for others to lend to people that thought they could afford a home and no decide they can't, don't want to, etc...?
It's not an opinion to me, it's a choice. Nobody held a gun to anyones head and made them sign for a home they couldn't afford. Look in the mirror and tell yourself, I am in over my head and can't afford this. I am going to walk away to salvage what I can and to get back on my feet. I know this may impact how I live the rest of my life, but I am okay with that. If you can say that, you've made a decision that you can live with. If you blame someone else because you can't pay your mortgage, there are no words I can say. I don't think like you do. And that is not an opinion, that is a fact.

[tony soprano]

Originally Posted by GailMI

A) They should have known better. I, on the other hand, am "dumber than a 2nd grader."
B) If I take on -75,000 it will mean, literally, going to my grave in the hole. I think the billions the banks made on the way to this slide should hold them over for awhile.

I'm not sure why you keep repeating the "dumber than a 2nd grader" comment. That comment didn't come from me. But, I digress. What about the billions in home equity that was made by homeowners? Shouldn't that hold them for awhile? And what of the dozens and dozens of banks that have failed? The number is closing on 100 YTD. Are they not deserving of any sympathy? What becomes of the thousands of employees that worked at those banks that may not be able to find work now? What if they slide into foreclosure because of loss of income? Do you have any sympathy for those people or is it every man/woman for themselves?

It's a simple difference of opinion as to who should take on the majority of the suffering in this whole situation: the lower and middle class folks or the money mongers who caused it. We obviously disagree. Fortunately, I'm a infrequent visitor to this forum, so you can keep up your side of the argument a LOT better than I can. You seem to spend a lot of time here. So, actually, I guess---you're the big winner in the whole situation. You can insult people who are in trouble and trying to salvage what's left of their lives and you can feel good about being so full of what's good and right. Congrats.

The money mongers caused it? Please. Did you buy your home under the threat of physical violence from your lender? Was anyone twisting your arm when you signed your loan docs? I don't insult people trying to salvage their lives but I don't let people blow smoke up my xxx either. Let's be real here; the only reason your decision to walk away from your mortgage is largely looked on with apathy is because the note is held by a big, evil, faceless corporate entity. We all know it's ok to stick it to corporations. After all, they can afford it.

Let's say you had bought your place from a little old retired couple who owned it free and clear and they carried the note. If you came on this board and said you were going to walk away and stick them with the mortgage you would have received an entirely different response. You think you've heard insults now? Just replace the the little old retired couple with a nameless, faceless bank and you pretty much get a free pass on your decision to walk. I've already suggested that you go and do what you have to do, just stop trying to portray yourself as the party being victimized here. It isn't selling.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

I'm not sure why you keep repeating the "dumber than a 2nd grader comment". That comment didn't come from me. But, I digress. What about the billions in home equity that was made by homeowners? Shouldn't that hold them for awhile? And what of the dozens and dozens of banks that have failed? The number is closing on 100 YTD. Are they not deserving of any sympathy? What becomes of the thousands of employees that worked at those banks that may not be able to find work now? What if they slide into foreclosure because of loss of income? Do you have any sympathy for those people or is it every man/woman for themselves?The money mongers caused it?

You are under the impression that the decision makers in the financial industry are out of work? That the poor guys are pauperized? That the poor litle finance guys for Merrill Lynch are starving on the 2.3 billion in bonuses they got after the place collapsed?

Please. Did you buy your home under the threat of physical violence from your lender? Was anyone twisting your arm when you signed your loan docs? I don't insult people trying to salvage their lives but I don't let people blow smoke up my xxx either. Let's be real here; the only reason your decision to walk away from your mortgage is largely looked on with apathy is because the note is held by a big, evil, faceless corporate entity. We all know it's ok to stick it to corporations. After all, they can afford it.

Please. Now you are getting carried away. The financial industry quite broadly misled the borrowers as to the nature and level of risk. If she had received an accurate disclosure projecting the outcome that occurred I doubt very much she would have proceeded.

Let's say you had bought your place from a little old retired couple who owned it free and clear and they carried the note. If you came on this board and said you were going to walk away and stick them with the mortgage you would have received an entirely different response. You think you've heard insults now? Just replace the the little old retired couple with a nameless, faceless bank and you pretty much get a free pass on your decision to walk. I've already suggested that you go and do what you have to do, just stop trying to portray yourself as the party being victimized here. It isn't selling.

And who was it in fact that socked it to the poor little old retired couple? Who ran a scheme that loaded up retirement plans and securities with junk rated AAA?

It is a business relationship as specified in a contract and in the law. You do whatever you chose within the boundaries of that contract and those laws..

You ignore the empty drums thumping about the violation of their views.

[inveritatemonstra]

Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda

No, I did not. Incorrect response #1.



No, I do not. Incorrect response #2.




Irrelevant to the question at hand. Incorrect response #3.




Irrelevant to the question at hand. Incorrect response #4.



Irrelevant to the question at hand. Incorrect response #5.



Irrelevant to the question at hand. Incorrect response #6.



Well, at least here you are finally attempting to answer the question.

Unfortunately you have failed to do so. Incorrect response #7.



Uh, oh, you may actually be getting there....



Oops. Spoke to soon.
Irrelevant to the question at hand. Incorrect response #8.



Irrelevant to the question at hand. Incorrect response #9.



The question was very simple.

In fact, it only contained six little words.

Which one(s) confused you?

Care to try again?

LOL!! Not even worthy of a response. You obviously have nothing better to do.... yet you don't have time to comprehend the original point made.

[GailMI]

Originally Posted by tony soprano

I'm not sure why you keep repeating the "dumber than a 2nd grader" comment. That comment didn't come from me. I've already suggested that you go and do what you have to do, just stop trying to portray yourself as the party being victimized here. It isn't selling.

I keep referring to it because that was the comment, directed at ME, that brought me back to this thread. The poster said that I deserved everything I got because I was dumb enough to buy at the wrong time. He said that anyone with "second grade math skills" knew better, so I deserved whatever happened to me.

As for trying to sell myself as a "victim" I'm not trying to to sell myself as anything. Especially not to you. I was just defending myself against somebody who said I was dumb as a rock for purchasing a home to live in. Which I could afford. I could afford the terms of the sale. I still can. But I CAN'T pay on this contract for 10 to 15 years and still end up OWING money. I just plain didn't count on completely and irrevocably ruining my finances as I approach retirement simply because I bought a home at the wrong time.

I WILL "do what I have to do." Thanks for your blessing on that. I appreciate it.

[GailMI]

Originally Posted by inveritatemonstra

LOL!! Not even worthy of a response. You obviously have nothing better to do.... yet you don't have time to comprehend the original point made.

No kidding.

[GailMI]

Originally Posted by olecapt

You ignore the empty drums thumping about the violation of their views.

The best advice I've heard on this thread. Thanks!

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by gulfer

Hmm...not even sure I want to post after this. I've said my part of it many times, but here there are NO WINNERS. But I tend to disagree that it is an opinion on who's to blame. You borrowed the money, and this is your choice on how to deal with it.
Is a money monger someone who works hard at school, in business, etc... and actually makes a lot of money? Is it someone who took risk by investing in things that gave a large percentage of returns? Is it someone that put thier money out there for others to lend to people that thought they could afford a home and no decide they can't, don't want to, etc...?
It's not an opinion to me, it's a choice. Nobody held a gun to anyones head and made them sign for a home they couldn't afford. Look in the mirror and tell yourself, I am in over my head and can't afford this. I am going to walk away to salvage what I can and to get back on my feet. I know this may impact how I live the rest of my life, but I am okay with that. If you can say that, you've made a decision that you can live with. If you blame someone else because you can't pay your mortgage, there are no words I can say. I don't think like you do. And that is not an opinion, that is a fact.

You know Gulfer it is a hard decision. Gail has been impacted for likely the rest of her days. That is true regardless of what she does. And I doubt very much that she was fully disclosed on what could happen.

I was flooded earlier in the decade. Cost me upward of $150K. I could stand it though it sure stung. I live half way down a long hill on a 2 or 3% grade...it is impossible for my place to get flooded. So I did not have flood insurance. But it happened anyway. I realized the loss...fixed everything back up and proceeded.

I think Gail is in the same position. She has been hit by the equivalent of an impossible flood. And the damage is real for a mature person. There are not 20 years left to recover. If she does not fix it now she will have a strong likelihood of being forced into bankruptcy on the next reversal - a significant illness or a need for a nursing home.

So I would think she should dump as much of the problem now as she can and get on with life. Even if she finds doing it ethically unappetizing I would still think she should proceed...because the odds are pretty strong she will have to do it in the end...so better now than later.

[MadManofBethesda]

Originally Posted by inveritatemonstra

LOL!! Not even worthy of a response.

Originally Posted by GailMI

No kidding.

And yet you both responded.

So much for logic 101.