[barocko7]

[quote=Daddys///M3;10641734]Forcibly taking money from me to pay for someone else's misfortune, whether through no fault of their own or by their own hand, is not a win-win. It's a win-lose, as those that don't earn win and those that do lose.[/quote

With all respect, your unwillingness to share with others is very unfortunate and obviously many people have a simular view. This is why we need a federal government solution, to control and oversee the situation and implement standards which help the mislead and poor.
Those who work and earn should also have an obligation toward sharing a tiny % to those in need.
Filtering out those in need and those not in need is necessary to avoid mishaps.

Don`t just think of yourself, think a little bit for others as well. You`ll find it exciting and your kindness will receive gratitude.

[cedar_bluff_tree_farm]

Originally Posted by barocko7

First of all, it is a win - win situation for everyones benefit. If you work and earn a salary, it should be normal for you to share a tiny % of your earnings with others in need. Theres nothing wrong with that and you surely won`t be charged 70% more tax on your earnings.

I already share a percentage of my salary with those in needs. It's called taxes.

Currently I pay:

10% of anything I purchase to the state
1% annually of the value of my home to the state, county, schools, and other tax authorities
15% of my income to the Federal government
6.4% of my income to the elderly for their retirement (social security)

There are very few government programs that I qualify for, and people who are needy enjoy much more benefits from the government than I do.

[cedar_bluff_tree_farm]

Originally Posted by barocko7

Those who work and earn should also have an obligation toward sharing a tiny % to those in need.

Those who work and have the means do help the needy, but maybe not always directly. I invest in companies that provide jobs to people. Without people like me investing in corporations, companies would not have the ability to provide jobs to people and many more people would be needy.

I pay taxes that go to providing many government programs for the needy. In fact, the weathiest Americans also pay the very most in taxes (you can look at IRS statistics if you are dubious), and these directly benefit people who are needy.

Our government even provides a tax incentive to help others by exempting money we donate from taxes. Barack Obama is trying to change this, but it is a great benefit for those who partake in it.

[Daddys///M3]

Originally Posted by barocko7

With all respect, your unwillingness to share with others is very unfortunate and obviously many people have a simular view. This is why we need a federal government solution, to control and oversee the situation and implement standards which help the mislead and poor.
Those who work and earn should also have an obligation toward sharing a tiny % to those in need.
Filtering out those in need and those not in need is necessary to avoid mishaps.

Don`t just think of yourself, think a little bit for others as well. You`ll find it exciting and your kindness will receive gratitude.

Keep twisting. Not once did I say that I am unwilling to share. I said it is not my responsibility to make sure that your family is fed and the government should not have a role in requiring me to be charitable. Again you refuse to read and comprehend my post and twist words to make an assumption about my position. I don't know how charitable you have been in your life, but I can assure you that I have given more than my fair share, and did so without want of recognition or reward (doing it for karma, gratitude, or escitement is selfish in and of itself). I simply don't give money to panhandlers. Interpret it however you want. You see what you want to in my words, not what I am actually saying.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by Daddys///M3

Forcibly taking money from me to pay for someone else's misfortune, whether through no fault of their own or by their own hand, is not a win-win. It's a win-lose, as those that don't earn win and those that do lose. I already pay my fair share in taxes in many cases to pay for policy I don't agree with. My responsibility in this life is to my family, not your's or anyone else's. I do believe in the golden rule, but have you ever heard that phrase "You can't legislate morality"? It applies in this sense as well. To force money from my hand to abide the golden rule is defies the spirit of the rule to it's core. As for knowing when I'll be in a situation of despair, I already have and you would know that I overcame my difficulties myself without asking anyone for anything, ever, if you would have tried to understand my posts instead of trying to change my mind (which will never happen by the way).

YOu don't get a vote Daddy. There are large segments of the government I do not approve of...and many tasks undertaken which I consider absurd...but I still get to pay my taxes like a good American. ***** and complain if you like. But you do not get a line item veto...

Defining an illegal immigrant is easy. Defining the reasons they come here illegaly is easy. I do empathize. To say that they don't have a choice is ridiculous and goes straight to my point of personal responsibility. Everyone has a choice, always. The options may not be pretty, and the choices may be difficult but to say they don't exist is akin to saying "It's not my fault I can't find work" when there are jobs out there, just jobs that you don't want to do.

Again vast parts of the illegal immigration problem were created by the government and business serving their own interests. Illegal immigration was encouraged by the government for many years.

Recently the gov said they were not going to tolerate any more (1988) and then they tolerated it some more. These were not the sole decision by the illegal to come here...they were openly invited and in fact recruited by US Industry with at least the tacit approval of the government. We have in the last five or six years become much more opposed as a people to the illegals. But lets us be clear we built the problem...illegal by illegal.

Practically we need to get rid of the unmanageable number and the numbers of involved americans. At that point we can adopt highly restrictive measures and prevent it from happening again...but only if we actually chose that option this time.

In short, I am an egoist in the sense that my money is mine. I worked for it and I retain the rights to it (for now anyway). Like I said, anarcho-capitalism all the way. It's what I believe in and I will continue to live my life in such a manner. Nothing you say or do will ever change my mind, and trust me, this is coming from a former utopia seeking idealist.

FWIW, I don't understand how you can seriously think that more government is the answer. Fed.gov has proven time and again that it's beauracracies and inefficiencies absolutely destroy anything that it touches. Social Security, Medicare, the USPS, the DOE, etc. all absolute mockerys and I guarantee that private industry could take all of that and operate 100% more efficiently than the government. Think for yourself, do for yourself, leave the government out of it.

YOu really believe that?

How about the Financial Industry? Leyhman Bros? Coutrywide? WaMu? and 30 others? All well run and examples for the goverment? AIG? The great manufacturers? GM? Chrysler? The US steel industry?

You really want AIG running your health plan?

Sorry buddy but the gov looks pretty good in some dimensions. As a Medicare recipient I would think they do at least as well as my last employer.

I watched the headquarters operation of my long term employer rip off the system for years. I even called it out at a couple of high level staff meetings. All the fellow brass told me how wrong I was and just did not understand. Right...four years later Boom... and it was always obvious. They just did not wish to see.

In general I think the other western democracies make it quite clear that a government run healt system is vastly better than what we have. And there are a dozen or more examples. You wish to hold that we can't compete with the Europeans?

[Golfinnova]

Originally Posted by barocko7

My respect - Thank you, your on the right track!
However, expired is expired and the manufacturer, for safety reasons, did`nt intend this food for distribution after expiration date. It could contain bacteria which could do more harm rather than good.
Imagine the Drugstore handing out expired pills and medicines.... The outcome is clear.

I would recommend you to give them away 1 day before expiration date. That way you can be sure that it`s safe. The needy would consume the product on the same day and no harm would be done.

May God bless you for your helping those in need!

Thank you barocko7, that was a very kind post.

As it was previously stated, just because a product is not sold by a certain date means it is dangerous for someone to consume the product. If you saw my pantry, I often have bags of peanuts to eat while watching sports that have a 2008 sell by date. I ate several bags of toffee peanuts while driving back and forth to L.A. last week without any effect.

Obviously, if a product is contaminated that is a different story and it is thrown away. I provide medications to locations as well and when they expire then I collect them and donate them to a charity that sends them to third world countries since they don't have the resources that we posess for even headaches.

Catholic Charities collects a lot of food that can not be sold, but is safe to eat and provides full meals for those that truly need it. I am happy that my company does it's part to help these people in their time of need.

[barocko7]

Originally Posted by Golfinnova

Catholic Charities collects a lot of food that can not be sold, but is safe to eat and provides full meals for those that truly need it. I am happy that my company does it's part to help these people in their time of need.

You and the Catholic Charity can be pround of what your doing! This is a basic doing of love unto others. I respect that and it fills my heart with joy, knowing that somewhere, someone out there is being helped.

[barocko7]

Originally Posted by Daddys///M3

Not once did I say that I am unwilling to share. I said it is not my responsibility to make sure that your family is fed and the government should not have a role in requiring me to be charitable.

If you say it`s not your responsibility then your actually mentioning an unwillingness per se, otherwise you would have no reason to mention it in the first place. It`s the hidden in-between-the-lines verse that shows the actual intent of what your thinking.

[Wade C]

I am going to jump in here and give my two peso worth. I am retired USN and also a Christian. OK i know i am going to get bruised here but most American's like my own son have never been in any other country. America has no no no poverty. There are government programs for everything. People who live on the street choose to live on the street. I have given my time to help out in rescue missions in a couple of large cities and soup kitchens in smaller ones. ( Always working with churches to help the poor.) Most homeless have a drinking or drug problem. Not all, but well over half. I am not putting them down, just saying that is the case. Many do not want to spend the night in rescue missions or government run programs. They choose to live free and not under someone's thumb. That does not make them less than human or worthless but they do have choices. Real poverty you find in other countries where they have no government help. I am glad Americans are generous people. If you want to help, then give to a church, or someother orginization. Your time and money is helpful. When you give directly to these people you will see an increase in numbers. ( Sort of like why everyone wants to go to america and take advantage of our well fare ) . You may feel good when you give directly to them but believe me you are begining the first stage of increased numbers. Give, YES YES but in a soup kitchen, salvation army or someother worthwhile orginization you believe in. Come to the Philippines or Thailand if you want to see poverty or even go to Mexico. Here kids go through our trash everyday, old men sit begging on the streets with little or no cloths on, moms walking with their children with their hands out, begging everywhere. NO Goverment help. Ok i am ready hit me!!!!!!

[Wade C]

Originally Posted by las vegas drunk

This is something my father would say. I have been on and off again homeless since 1995. Every single time I was helped out, and given a place to live, it was always by a liberal democrat. Remember, my father was a conservative republican himself, so I know how they think. He tried to raise me that way too, but I am much to generous and caring to become a republican. I can not understand how selfish they are sometimes. Here I am making $19,000 a year, and I will always help them, even taking them home to shower and eat, even if only for one night. However, you have some rich republican making $200,000 a year in his new Mercedes driving by, and he will not even give them a dollar. I have to agree with Barock07, something needs to change.

I really do not care if one is democratic or republican. There are two basic types of GOOD people in the world. One group to which i belong believe that what i have is mine Period. Now i may be generous or selfish but the choice belongs to me and me alone. The second group are the people that believe that what is mine is also theirs. They alway think they know better than me how to handle my property. I am a generous, selfgiving person. Kind, openminded, but what i have is MINE. I want to decide how to use it. I do not want someone who is more generous than me taking my stuff and giving it away because they think they know better than me how to best use my stuff. I want to be kind because I choose to be kind. i want to live where I can choose how generous I want to be. I live in the Philippines now because I can, and it reminds me of what America was in the south when i grew up in the 50's. Much poverty here but also much freedom and not so much government. In closing be as free with your stuff as you want to be, leave mine alone. Yes some in my group are very very stingy, but it is theirs not mine. I am generous because I choose to be generous. Leave what is mine alone. I will leave yours alone. Generous because I want to be not because you want me to be.