[ManofLogos]

Susan -- With the widespread ignorance regarding those gifted and talented, as well as of ADHD, it's disappointing but unsurprising how many hostile responses you received. First, a few clarifications:
1) To those who eschew the label "gifted," tell me, do you think Michael Jordan would have enjoyed playing basketball against you? Bobby Fisher playing chess against you? Of course not. Every young mind requires challenge, not insufferable boredom. As someone who tested at 5 years old at the maximum level (8th grade reading and math, and who read adult newspapers cover-to-cover in kindergarten at age 4 1/2), I can tell that "mainstreaming" and failing to teach to a child's level is sheer torture. It is psychological child abuse. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
2) Your child may or may not have ADHD. It is both underdiagnosed and overdiagnosed. You need an evaluation by a neuropsychologist, not a pediatrician, not a run-of-the-mill psychiatrist. It is absolutely untrue that childhood ADHD eventually "goes away." Many adults have undiagnosed ADHD; most children who "outgrow" it never had it in the first place. PET scans of the brains of those with ADHD differ from those without it; therefore, there is objective scientific evidence that it is a real condition. It is possible to have ADHD and to channel it in a way to one's benefit. Not everyone needs Ritalin (methylphenidate) or an amphetamine, but when properly prescribed, these drugs can be enormously helpful. One of the reasons ADHD is often misdiagnosed is when a profoundly gifted child fidgets due to boredom, and then, as you suggest, the teachers, utterly unqualified to render such a diagnosis, displace their own responsibility by blaming ADHD, when the problem really is the equivalent of making an adult read "See Spot Run" over and over again.
3) There are two kinds of homeschooling: religious and secular. Did you know that an inordinate number of Westinghouse Science Competition, International Math Olympiad and Scripps National Spelling Bee competitors and winners have been homeschooled? Homeschooling, if you have the time and the ability, is a far better option for a gifted child than putting him or her in the middle of a field of torture (i.e., school), rather than a field of dreams. If you can find an appropriate school, great, but if the school won't accelerate best on objective evidence of a child's intellectual age, then if your child is profoundly gifted, the schooling your child receives will be harmful.
4) Those who say that your child needs to have fun are correct, but what they fail to understand is that for a gifted child, having fun isn't coloring in a 1st grade workbook, it's creating, discovering and learning; it's challenging their minds to the highest possible levels. That is what brings them joy, whereas mainstreaming brings them a big, fat zero.
5) Many homeschoolers have been accepted to Ivy League colleges. Again, it depends on the quality of the education. If your child has an IQ of 160, is stuck in a crappy school, and then starts taking drugs to escape the torturous boredom, and then flunks out of high school, what will that do for his future? That's not an uncommon track. In contrast, if that same child is challenged through homeschooling, given the right tutors, exposed to great opportunities, and helped to discover that learning is wonderful, even to the point that he becomes a Westinghouse finalist, then what are the chances of getting into a great college then? One heck of a lot better.
6) Why do others perceive giftedness as a threat? Because they are not gifted. It's easy enough to acknowledge that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are much better quarterbacks than even the jockiest of high school jocks, but is very hard for people to acknowledge intellectual inferiority. There is a strong anti-intellectual bias in this country: brainiacs, nerds, geeks, eggheads and other terms have been and are used to "level the playing field" by the average among us. That will not change. But what you can do is help your child to have the self-confidence not to worry what others say about him or call him; to evaluate his efforts and endeavors objectively; to genuinely love discovery and learning. Most great pioneers in all areas of human action, from entrepreneurs to scientists to novelists, have been laughed at, derided and ostracized. Those who persevere have an unerring belief in themselves and do not need the approval of everyone. They are the ones truly self-actualized. Your child, with the right education, be it homeschooled or otherwise, can also become self-actualized. You obviously want to do the right thing. Now it is up to you to do it and to ignore those among the masses who remain who parrot the same tired canards against intellectual ability as do so-called "educational experts" as well as parents green with envy that their own children have not measured up to whatever personal desires they have psychologically projected on to them.
7) Regarding testing itself, I would seek the services of any competent neuropsychologist ...mod cut: links/recommendations removed

Good luck.

Originally Posted by SusanNV

I don't think my child has ADHD, but mentioned it only as an added reason for early testing - in case a future teacher or counselor wants an easy way to drug him into submission. As I originally said, his current teacher is the one "labelling" him as gifted and suggesting early testing. What potential problem are you speaking of, and what should be addresssed? Your previous advice seems more along the lines of ignore everything and let it all work out in the end.

Why is the idea of someone being gifted such a threat to everyone? As many on this thread have attested to, it is not an easy life. However, I think if a child is gifted and made to act average, it is just as unfair as if a child is intellectually challenged and made to function in a "normal" classroom. If my child had an IQ of 40 and I did nothing to help him reach his educational potential, what would you be saying then? Why should I be any less of a parent if my child's IQ is 140? I, too, am not in favor of homeschooling. I agree that it limits their future potential, both in higher education and in the workplace. There are other programs, both public and private, that would help my child, if indeed he is deemed gifted, to realize his potential.

Actually, I was not asking anyone's advice as to whether or not I should have my child tested. My original question was: Does anyone know where to have private gifted/talented testing done in Las Vegas? If you know of a place not already mentioned, please contribute. If all you have are opinions on my parenting choices, please don't contribute. I really don't need a village. Thanks anyway.

[LVinWA]

I was tested for admittance into the "GATE" program during the fifth grade. I didn't make it in, and the test administrator who seemed so polite and intrigued with me, acted HIGHLY abrupt and frankly rude after I had failed.

I'm curious, is it an IQ test? I remember seeing separate bell curve charts on my result sheet. I recall scoring high on three and in the "average" range on one.

[geos]

If he tested dull & stupid would they actually tell you?

[ktsung]

SusanNV,

My wife (also named Susan) and I have a profoundly gifted 6 yo girl, who was recently diagnosed with ADHD as well. We just discovered your posts from last fall, and we understand exactly what you are saying!

Here's a quick summary of our situation. We've tried and given up on 3 different private schools - all of the best in Las Vegas. We've looked at all the magnet and charter schools. None of them come close to addressing our needs, so we reluctantly decided to try homeschooling 3 months ago, through Nevada Virtual Academy. It's the best decision we ever made!

We had our daughter tested in California last March, because there are no true gifted specialists in town. UNLV is a reasonable place to start, if you can stand the wait. We also saw a neuropsychologist here, but she is not a gifted specialist.

We just applied to the Clark County School District Highly Gifted Program, and to Davidson Young Scholars. Both are valuable resources.

Most people don't understand what you're going through. They think you're lying or bragging, or they think that gifted children don't exist. There's a small community of people in Las Vegas who do understand. Please email us privately, and we'll talk!

Kemin and Sue

[ClarkGrisowld]

I can see the dilemma/anxiety.

I was in GATE myself and personally did not get much out of it. I was competitive and worked relatively hard in school (probably more than average, but not as much as many). I gained the most from good teachers who understood how to challenge better students without discouraging the slower learners.

What I'm saying is, gifted programs are certainly no substitute for a good core curriculum and, more importantly, valuing education and finding stimulation at home. I guess my question to a poster in this thread would be, if you've tried several different private schools and are dragging your child around to these different tests and programs, why not advance them a grade? Personally, I'd be against that because of the social issues, but that ship already sailed when you started pulling your child in and out of programs.

A great read on a number of "conventional wisdom" issues such as giving your child every opportunity (of which this topic is but one example) is "Freakanomics". On this particular topic, the authors cite several studies and other research that strongly suggests "obsessive parenting" has little impact that, in fact, the influence of peers dominates that of the parents. The authors found that school choice barely matters at all (when controlling for other factors). Putting those two together would suggest the best thing you can do for a child is providing stability in a good environment. Taking an active interest is clearly meaningful and the book does not dispute that, but I think the gist is that obsessing to find the perfect program for your child does not provide any advantage and certainly could be counterproductive when taken to extremes.

Most kids we are talking about here, the 98+ percentile, are just very bright but not true geniuses. Most success in life is determined by hard work with a good bit of luck. Success in few jobs requires any of us to be rocket scientists (of which most in the 98+ percentile are not). You really need to pay special attention to the social development. Truthfully, the elite jobs out there that many have no chance at are pretty much exclusive to a handful of top colleges and, possibly even more so, top graduate programs - both of which require much more than pure intellectual ability to get in. You pretty much are either born with that ability or not, and I don't feel it's a question of developing that ability so much as finding a way to motivate it (and, indeed, some students don't discover that passion until college or even later). And in that regard I don't think it matters much if the "light" goes on at 6 or 14, so long as it goes on in time to go to a good college and excel.

[ktsung]

With all due respect, I'm talking about a child in the 99.99th percentile, and this is an entirely different problem than the child in the 98th percentile. None of the conventional wisdom applies, and neither does any of the wisdom about moderately gifted children. An IQ of 160 is as different from 130 as an IQ of 130 is from 100.

Skipping a single grade doesn't help for the child who is more than a year ahead. We tried the best private schools, with a grade skip where possible. We are not obsessive parents dragging our child around for no reason. Unfortunately, we learned the hard way that there is no school in Las Vegas that is appropriate for our daughter.

We would love to help anyone, now or in the future, who can relate to what I am saying. If you also have a 99.99th percentile child (or think you might), please send me a direct message. We have a lot of resources and experience to share!

Kemin

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by ktsung

With all due respect, I'm talking about a child in the 99.99th percentile, and this is an entirely different problem than the child in the 98th percentile. None of the conventional wisdom applies, and neither does any of the wisdom about moderately gifted children. An IQ of 160 is as different from 130 as an IQ of 130 is from 100.

Skipping a single grade doesn't help for the child who is more than a year ahead. We tried the best private schools, with a grade skip where possible. We are not obsessive parents dragging our child around for no reason. Unfortunately, we learned the hard way that there is no school in Las Vegas that is appropriate for our daughter.

We would love to help anyone, now or in the future, who can relate to what I am saying. If you also have a 99.99th percentile child (or think you might), please send me a direct message. We have a lot of resources and experience to share!

Kemin

The trick with very bright children is to keep them on an even keel. They are smart enough that they don't need you to educate them...you need merely herd them in the right direction and they take care of the rest. You can't really educate them by the way. They are smart enough they see things far better than you. They think way ahead of you at each point.

So stop worrying about where they go to school. It is not an issue. They will do as well as they chose to wherever. Provide opportunity and let them go where they will...they are going to do so anyway.

So get your role straight. You need to provide stability and constancy. Expose them to the opportunity and they will go where they chose.

Being very bright is nice but insufficient. You need some framework to deal with life as well. Build framework. A lot easier than trying to challenge a child brighter than you.

Note also that intelligence comes in various guises. It is not simple or straightforward. Superb intellect can often be found with really bad skills in practical areas. Sometimes I think it goes together.

Enjoy the kid. But don't get carried away.

[Spraynard Kruger]

If the teacher is making claims that your child should be tested in any way, the district could be liable for such testing. I'm not saying that your childs teacher is sidesteping another autism spectrum diagnosis or ADHD but the teacher should exercise caution in making such recommendations.

In any case, you can get your child an IQ test from any qualified child psychologist.

And relax. Teachers, counselors and the like cannot suggest your kid gets "drugged into submission." It doesn't quite work that way. They can suggest that your child has ADHD and you may find your child with an IEP. Gate is nothing more than an IEP with a special name.

[ClarkGrisowld]

Originally Posted by olecapt

The trick with very bright children is to keep them on an even keel.

I'd have to agree with all that you said. For starters, IQ tests are not quite as scientific as we would like to believe. Debate about their ability to differentiate among gifted children aside, you might say what they really measure is potential, which even if you were 1 in 10,000 in endurance doesn't even mean you could finish the Tour de France, much less win it.

I stand by true genius stems from obsessive passion (which cannot be taught or learned, merely discovered) combined with inate "workings" that are far too complex and rare to have any hope of measuring.

Consider 99.99% is 1 in 10,000. In the US alone, there are over 30,000 such individuals. How many of those would be labeled "true" geniuses? Are the 29,000+ or so who didn't reach their full potential the result of bad parenting? Somehow before all these tests and specialized schools we still had Einstein, Newton, Galileo, etc...

If finding the right program or home schooling is what it takes to create stability, then by all means (not to imply people in this thread are doing any differently). But you can't obsess over failing to create an opportunity that you have no ability to deliver, if such opportunity even exists. If your child is happy and well adjusted, mission accomplished because it would take truly horrendous parenting to stand in the way of true genius.

[yourbasicmom]

my child is not a genius, but she was one of those 99th percentile testers on every test. she was always advanced and super bright. the thing is, she has to go through the motions - school grade by grade - so she will be a well adjusted adult. she is now a high school freshman. we knew she was gifted, and didn't need a test to tell us that she is. what would we then do if we had her tested? I didn't know either. it has been my job as her parent to expose her to things and to keep her interested. she is well mannered, well spoken, well traveled. she knows the difference and similarity between rodgers & hammerstein and tegan & sara, and also monet and manet. she has friends that are freshmen and plays a high school sport. we feel good about how we have done this so far. we think our job as parents is to help grow them into be successful adulthood.