11-12-2009, 01:25 AM
Location: Peoria, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tony soprano
I did miss an earlier instance of your reference to "irresponsible buyers" and that's my bad, but you don't just post messages, you publish papers. That said, it is a moderation of your first position. If you go back to your original post, you'll find no mention of the irresponsible buyer. What you'll find is this -I've said at least 7-8 pages ago that there was plenty of blame to go round. I don't know how that statement could be taken as excluding lenders/banks. However, to say it was 100% a greedy banker issue while ignoring the roles of the irresponsible buyers and speculators was wholly inaccurate IMO.
Another topic where our perspectives widely diverge is your belief that banks made loans even when they new they wouldn't be repaid. I'd be willing to make a wager that there were many more instances of buyers cooking their info and finessing documentation to secure a loan, than there were lenders knowingly making loans that they new were not going to be repaid.
OK, OK. I revise my 100% position from earlier. I take that back, it was an exaggeration... and I do get extremely wordy! LOL!!! This ones wordy too, but I think it can make us both happy if you understand that my intentions are not to interfere in anyones finances.
To get us both on the same page, I may need to say something like, the banks had the POWER to prevent this, but they just didnt.
For instance, If a buyer visits a bank for a loan, lender runs the numbers says. "Congratulations you qualify for $80K!" The buyer frowns and says, "dang, nothing in the city is less than $350K." (unrealistic pricing due to lax lending and pressure on appraisers to "get 'er done" regardless of comps.)
To please their client, the banker tells them, dont worry I have just the program for you....
Its an interest only loan, with ZERO percent down, so this will allow you to qualify for the $350k, and you wont need any savings either. But, the catch is that the payment will go up $300 every month after the first year until it finally reaches an 8% interest rate and your payments will quadruple.
At this point, BOTH parties are aware that when this time comes, it will no longer be affordable, but in the height of the housing frenzy all the advice from lenders, as well as realtors, yes, was not to worry because you can sell or refinance out of it. I believe that honest loan officers and realtors said that because they believed it and not because they were trying to swindle anyone and it had also been true for the recent past.
My venting here is focused more on the creator of the loan programs themselves that were so obviously destined to fail. When I say banks could have prevented it, I mean to say that they could have told that same borrower, Sorry, go find yourself something for $80k OR wait until you qualify for more. This keeps everything in check for themselves, the borrower and the real estate market. I just label that as good business and Im not proposing any type of govt interference or regulation.
Yes borrowers that accepted the wild loans should share in the blame when they cant afford the payments they knew were coming. They paid the price and lost their homes. (Yes, some are probably still squatting inside without electric waiting for the auction date but their removal is imminent.) Point being, they had a consequence for their actions. I know you like to point out that some banks failed too, but its also true that some banks that SHOULD have failed were injected with federal money instead of taking the SAME fall as their counterpart.
I tried really hard to be as diplomatic as possible here, I hope you understand the logic because Im really striving to do something other than agree to disagree.
Last edited by cmist; 11-12-2009 at 01:33 AM ..
11-12-2009, 09:18 AM
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Back to the original poster. He has 12 people on his block that are going through foreclosure.
Are there a lot of areas in Vegas like this??? If so, will it be months before they hit the MLS?? I am wondering how many properties the banks are holding onto.
11-12-2009, 09:37 AM
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY!
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Banks offer loans that people can't afford and freely advertise those products.
Tobacco companies make cigarettes that people shouldn't smoke and freely advertise that product.
The decision to use a certain product, even though it's bad for you, totally rests on the user. Whether it's taking the first puff...or the first dollar...the ultimate decision is with the taker. No one can force you start smoking...no one can force you to take money.
11-12-2009, 09:58 AM
Location: North Las Vegas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MN-Born-n-Raised
Back to the original poster. He has 12 people on his block that are going through foreclosure.
Are there a lot of areas in Vegas like this??? If so, will it be months before they hit the MLS?? I am wondering how many properties the banks are holding onto.
Oh yes there are allot of area's like this,in my area I am on a cul-de-sac of 10 homes,out of the 10 homes only 3 homes haven't gone into foreclosure. That is because the other homes were purchased by would be investors. The Builder had assured us when we purchased there would only be 1 investor per phase. When we purchase our home we paid $400,000 it is roughly valued at $180,000 due to the foreclosures and short sales.
This home would take longer to even get close to that figure again and I will probably be dead by the time that happens since I am a senior citizen.
There are allot of homes that haven't been released either through home owners trying to work out a loan modification, now Fanny Mae is offering deed in lieu of foreclosure and leasing the homes back to the home owner for a year and the a month by month basis. Analysts estimate between 10,to 20,000 properties that haven't been released yet. This is the way the banks are controlling the costs and availability.
Most banks are doing a mark to future on the properties which makes it look like the property is worth more than it currently is so they don't have to release it. In other business's some would say cooking the books.
This keeps homes off the market. There is currently 14,000 properties in Contingency meaning that there is accepted offers but they aren't closing due to whatever. That is more inventory than what is currently active.
There is roughly 1 in 68 home owners that are in foreclosure in Las Vegas and the surrounding area's. 13.9% unemployment so there will be more homes that will be foreclosed on.
All my informtion either comes from real-state reporting agencies or first hand experience.
11-12-2009, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
MN-Born-n-Raised
Back to the original poster. He has 12 people on his block that are going through foreclosure.
Are there a lot of areas in Vegas like this??? If so, will it be months before they hit the MLS?? I am wondering how many properties the banks are holding onto.
I'm not sure about the other areas but its like this in Mountain's Edge. It started with the investors walking away, then the owners who had those time bomb loans, then the people who lost their jobs. Now its people like me who have accepted the fact that we are too deep in the hole to ever get out. We don't qualify for short sale or a loan mod because we still have income. BofA won't even talk to me until I'm in default for 3 months?
So I have 6 months to worry about the banks coming after me and a credit scored that screwed for 10 years. Maybe by that time all the roads, parks and commercial property are done.
11-12-2009, 12:17 PM
Location: Peoria, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jfkIII
Banks offer loans that people can't afford and freely advertise those products.
Tobacco companies make cigarettes that people shouldn't smoke and freely advertise that product.
The decision to use a certain product, even though it's bad for you, totally rests on the user. Whether it's taking the first puff...or the first dollar...the ultimate decision is with the taker. No one can force you start smoking...no one can force you to take money.
Right I already gave brownie points for no guns, arm twisting, or physical torture. If someone chooses to smoke, I agree 100% with what you say.
Unlike smoking, the poor judgement of the banking system has brought an entire nation to its knees, and not just the individual borrowers.
And FYI, Im a smoker and a toker and do all kinds of things I shouldnt, I support other peoples right to do the same... but I think large corporations with the power to destroy the national economy need to be a little more responsible. Enough said, Im done... sorry for sidetracking.
I hope people that keep repeating the "no guns were used in the destruction of this economy" mantra all move to Vegas and stay there.
Last edited by cmist; 11-12-2009 at 12:27 PM ..
11-12-2009, 12:30 PM
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telmz1 and 007.... It sounds like a good chunk of the (newer?) neighborhoods have new owners. They might be investors, retirees, 2nd home folks, or 1st time buyers. But looking at a snap shot right now, how many are going to be foreclosed or are currently foreclosed??? What percentage are officially for sale?
I'm trying to get a perspective of how long this can drag on.
Thanks for the input.
11-12-2009, 12:40 PM
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cmist
Unlike smoking, the poor judgement of the banking system has brought an entire nation to its knees, and not just the individual borrowers.
Here's where we disagree. I would substitute the bolded text above with "the irresponsible borrowers".
I have no problems with the banking system. It is that system that has lent me the money to buy my comfortable home (and one that I can afford!), my two cars and provides a safe place to park my extra money. Please don't change that banking system. Rather, change to borrowing habits of irresponsible people who borrow what they cannot afford to pay back.
Last edited by jfkIII; 11-12-2009 at 12:50 PM ..
11-12-2009, 12:56 PM
Location: Londonderry, NH
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This sounds like an investment opportunity to me. somebody that kept their wealth during the recent crash should be snapping these up by the dozens. I'll bet the banks would sell for a dime on the dollar if the investor paid cash. Ok, where are the high rollers when LV needs them.
11-12-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jfkIII
Here's where we disagree. I would substitute the bolded text above with "the irresponsible borrowers".
I have no problems with the banking system. It is that system that has lent me the money to buy my comfortable home (and one that I can afford!), my two cars and provides a safe place to park my extra money. Please don't change that banking system. Rather, change to borrowing habits of irresponsible people who borrow what they cannot afford to pay back.
Hallelujah.
cmist, I'm not ignoring your last response to me. I'll respond when I have some time to put my thoughts together. It's been a busy morning.
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Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)