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Old 11-12-2009, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Peoria, AZ
1,064 posts, read 2,655,740 times
Reputation: 429

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony soprano View Post
I did miss an earlier instance of your reference to "irresponsible buyers" and that's my bad, but you don't just post messages, you publish papers. That said, it is a moderation of your first position. If you go back to your original post, you'll find no mention of the irresponsible buyer. What you'll find is this -I've said at least 7-8 pages ago that there was plenty of blame to go round. I don't know how that statement could be taken as excluding lenders/banks. However, to say it was 100% a greedy banker issue while ignoring the roles of the irresponsible buyers and speculators was wholly inaccurate IMO.

Another topic where our perspectives widely diverge is your belief that banks made loans even when they new they wouldn't be repaid. I'd be willing to make a wager that there were many more instances of buyers cooking their info and finessing documentation to secure a loan, than there were lenders knowingly making loans that they new were not going to be repaid.
OK, OK. I revise my 100% position from earlier. I take that back, it was an exaggeration... and I do get extremely wordy! LOL!!! This ones wordy too, but I think it can make us both happy if you understand that my intentions are not to interfere in anyones finances.

To get us both on the same page, I may need to say something like, the banks had the POWER to prevent this, but they just didnt.

For instance, If a buyer visits a bank for a loan, lender runs the numbers says. "Congratulations you qualify for $80K!" The buyer frowns and says, "dang, nothing in the city is less than $350K." (unrealistic pricing due to lax lending and pressure on appraisers to "get 'er done" regardless of comps.)

To please their client, the banker tells them, dont worry I have just the program for you....

Its an interest only loan, with ZERO percent down, so this will allow you to qualify for the $350k, and you wont need any savings either. But, the catch is that the payment will go up $300 every month after the first year until it finally reaches an 8% interest rate and your payments will quadruple.

At this point, BOTH parties are aware that when this time comes, it will no longer be affordable, but in the height of the housing frenzy all the advice from lenders, as well as realtors, yes, was not to worry because you can sell or refinance out of it. I believe that honest loan officers and realtors said that because they believed it and not because they were trying to swindle anyone and it had also been true for the recent past.

My venting here is focused more on the creator of the loan programs themselves that were so obviously destined to fail. When I say banks could have prevented it, I mean to say that they could have told that same borrower, Sorry, go find yourself something for $80k OR wait until you qualify for more. This keeps everything in check for themselves, the borrower and the real estate market. I just label that as good business and Im not proposing any type of govt interference or regulation.

Yes borrowers that accepted the wild loans should share in the blame when they cant afford the payments they knew were coming. They paid the price and lost their homes. (Yes, some are probably still squatting inside without electric waiting for the auction date but their removal is imminent.) Point being, they had a consequence for their actions. I know you like to point out that some banks failed too, but its also true that some banks that SHOULD have failed were injected with federal money instead of taking the SAME fall as their counterpart.

I tried really hard to be as diplomatic as possible here, I hope you understand the logic because Im really striving to do something other than agree to disagree.

Last edited by cmist; 11-12-2009 at 01:33 AM..
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:18 AM
 
9,673 posts, read 11,030,809 times
Reputation: 8386
Back to the original poster. He has 12 people on his block that are going through foreclosure.

Are there a lot of areas in Vegas like this??? If so, will it be months before they hit the MLS?? I am wondering how many properties the banks are holding onto.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY!
13,814 posts, read 28,395,808 times
Reputation: 7615
Banks offer loans that people can't afford and freely advertise those products.

Tobacco companies make cigarettes that people shouldn't smoke and freely advertise that product.

The decision to use a certain product, even though it's bad for you, totally rests on the user. Whether it's taking the first puff...or the first dollar...the ultimate decision is with the taker. No one can force you start smoking...no one can force you to take money.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: North Las Vegas
1,631 posts, read 3,939,444 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised View Post
Back to the original poster. He has 12 people on his block that are going through foreclosure.

Are there a lot of areas in Vegas like this??? If so, will it be months before they hit the MLS?? I am wondering how many properties the banks are holding onto.
Oh yes there are allot of area's like this,in my area I am on a cul-de-sac of 10 homes,out of the 10 homes only 3 homes haven't gone into foreclosure. That is because the other homes were purchased by would be investors. The Builder had assured us when we purchased there would only be 1 investor per phase. When we purchase our home we paid $400,000 it is roughly valued at $180,000 due to the foreclosures and short sales.
This home would take longer to even get close to that figure again and I will probably be dead by the time that happens since I am a senior citizen.

There are allot of homes that haven't been released either through home owners trying to work out a loan modification, now Fanny Mae is offering deed in lieu of foreclosure and leasing the homes back to the home owner for a year and the a month by month basis. Analysts estimate between 10,to 20,000 properties that haven't been released yet. This is the way the banks are controlling the costs and availability.

Most banks are doing a mark to future on the properties which makes it look like the property is worth more than it currently is so they don't have to release it. In other business's some would say cooking the books.

This keeps homes off the market. There is currently 14,000 properties in Contingency meaning that there is accepted offers but they aren't closing due to whatever. That is more inventory than what is currently active.

There is roughly 1 in 68 home owners that are in foreclosure in Las Vegas and the surrounding area's. 13.9% unemployment so there will be more homes that will be foreclosed on.

All my informtion either comes from real-state reporting agencies or first hand experience.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:16 PM
 
14 posts, read 37,101 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised View Post
Back to the original poster. He has 12 people on his block that are going through foreclosure.

Are there a lot of areas in Vegas like this??? If so, will it be months before they hit the MLS?? I am wondering how many properties the banks are holding onto.
I'm not sure about the other areas but its like this in Mountain's Edge. It started with the investors walking away, then the owners who had those time bomb loans, then the people who lost their jobs. Now its people like me who have accepted the fact that we are too deep in the hole to ever get out. We don't qualify for short sale or a loan mod because we still have income. BofA won't even talk to me until I'm in default for 3 months?

So I have 6 months to worry about the banks coming after me and a credit scored that screwed for 10 years. Maybe by that time all the roads, parks and commercial property are done.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Peoria, AZ
1,064 posts, read 2,655,740 times
Reputation: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkIII View Post
Banks offer loans that people can't afford and freely advertise those products.

Tobacco companies make cigarettes that people shouldn't smoke and freely advertise that product.

The decision to use a certain product, even though it's bad for you, totally rests on the user. Whether it's taking the first puff...or the first dollar...the ultimate decision is with the taker. No one can force you start smoking...no one can force you to take money.
Right I already gave brownie points for no guns, arm twisting, or physical torture. If someone chooses to smoke, I agree 100% with what you say.

Unlike smoking, the poor judgement of the banking system has brought an entire nation to its knees, and not just the individual borrowers.

And FYI, Im a smoker and a toker and do all kinds of things I shouldnt, I support other peoples right to do the same... but I think large corporations with the power to destroy the national economy need to be a little more responsible. Enough said, Im done... sorry for sidetracking.

I hope people that keep repeating the "no guns were used in the destruction of this economy" mantra all move to Vegas and stay there.

Last edited by cmist; 11-12-2009 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:30 PM
 
9,673 posts, read 11,030,809 times
Reputation: 8386
telmz1 and 007.... It sounds like a good chunk of the (newer?) neighborhoods have new owners. They might be investors, retirees, 2nd home folks, or 1st time buyers. But looking at a snap shot right now, how many are going to be foreclosed or are currently foreclosed??? What percentage are officially for sale?

I'm trying to get a perspective of how long this can drag on.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY!
13,814 posts, read 28,395,808 times
Reputation: 7615
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmist View Post
Unlike smoking, the poor judgement of the banking system has brought an entire nation to its knees, and not just the individual borrowers.
Here's where we disagree. I would substitute the bolded text above with "the irresponsible borrowers".

I have no problems with the banking system. It is that system that has lent me the money to buy my comfortable home (and one that I can afford!), my two cars and provides a safe place to park my extra money. Please don't change that banking system. Rather, change to borrowing habits of irresponsible people who borrow what they cannot afford to pay back.

Last edited by jfkIII; 11-12-2009 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,535,221 times
Reputation: 24856
This sounds like an investment opportunity to me. somebody that kept their wealth during the recent crash should be snapping these up by the dozens. I'll bet the banks would sell for a dime on the dollar if the investor paid cash. Ok, where are the high rollers when LV needs them.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:01 PM
 
1,347 posts, read 2,440,791 times
Reputation: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfkIII View Post
Here's where we disagree. I would substitute the bolded text above with "the irresponsible borrowers".

I have no problems with the banking system. It is that system that has lent me the money to buy my comfortable home (and one that I can afford!), my two cars and provides a safe place to park my extra money. Please don't change that banking system. Rather, change to borrowing habits of irresponsible people who borrow what they cannot afford to pay back.
Hallelujah.

cmist, I'm not ignoring your last response to me. I'll respond when I have some time to put my thoughts together. It's been a busy morning.
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