[Raiderman]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

I don't think you're seeing things the way I see them. I think that Lake Mead is a goner. I think weather patterns around the Rocky Mountains are going to be disrupted to the point where the Colorado River would be better described as a stream. We already lost one-full year's worth of river flow in the last 10 years. And it's accelerating. It's only a matter of time before the river's output is cut in half. With this scenario, things look grim for Las Vegas.

So if you have to choose between using what's left of the Colorado to produce food, and using what's left of the Colorado keep Las Vegas running, it's an easy choice. People are mistaking "production" to mean ONLY manufacturing. I don't care if a city/region produces shrimp, fruit, cars, paper, minerals, or even credit card statements. Every other city in America is surrounded by suburban and rural areas which support the city. Drive an hour out of New York (on a light-traffic day), and you're in farmland.

Las Vegas simply is not the same. We only take. America (and the world) flies to this city, drops off financial resources and Las Vegas produces nothing in return. Drive an hour in any direction and you still have next to nothing -- some borax, some lithium, and hydroelectric power. We only need a population of a few thousand to work these useful industries. The rest is all you can eat buffets (provided by areas that produce food), bars and clubs (provided by areas that produce grain), and gaming (which is a pointless waste of time).

EDIT -- Incidentally, think things look equally grim for Phoenix. Some day, textbooks will mention the failure of high-density settling of the Mojave desert. (Unless we can find a source of free energy and desalination becomes cheap enough to refill our lakes and irrigate our crops hundreds of miles from the shore. I think the only chance we have is a technological break-through. Thus, it would behoove us to ramp up our schools for the gifted programs nationally.)

I view entertainment as a "production". Every place has its strengths (except for maybe Detroit). We produce entertainment for the world.

To use your analogy, some places produce shrimp or fruit. Then people buy it, eat, and are satisfied. Las Vegas produces entertainment. Then people buy it, experience it, and are satisfied. What's the difference?

And you don't think Manhattan supports New York, much the same way the Strip supports the valley? I don't understand your point about driving an hour out of New York and being in farmland. Drive 2 hours out of Las Vegas and you're in farmland, too. What does the proximity of farmland have to do with anything?

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by Raiderman

What does the proximity of farmland have to do with anything?

Sustainability. All cities are a drain on their surrounding area. They need farms and aquifers to feed them. Even in a two-hour driving distance from Las Vegas, our surrounding area produces two things -- diddly and squat.

Las Vegas could simply disappear and America would not miss it. How Far Can I Travel

Originally Posted by Raiderman

Las Vegas produces entertainment. Then people buy it, experience it, and are satisfied. What's the difference?

The difference is that the rest of the country expends a great deal of energy and resources to funnel food, gasoline, and electricity to an area which doesn't produce anything tangible. We don't have any secondary industries backing up our primary business of "getting people drunk and then taking all their money."

Los Angeles has shipping and some of the most fertile farmland in America within a two-hour radius. San Francisco has finance and agriculture -- they grow more than just grapes in the area. Seattle has timber and seafood.

What little Las Vegas has to offer in the way of minerals could be worked with a population that could fit in the Eastside Cannery.

[lvoc]

Originally Posted by Raiderman

I view entertainment as a "production". Every place has its strengths (except for maybe Detroit). We produce entertainment for the world.

To use your analogy, some places produce shrimp or fruit. Then people buy it, eat, and are satisfied. Las Vegas produces entertainment. Then people buy it, experience it, and are satisfied. What's the difference?

And you don't think Manhattan supports New York, much the same way the Strip supports the valley? I don't understand your point about driving an hour out of New York and being in farmland. Drive 2 hours out of Las Vegas and you're in farmland, too. What does the proximity of farmland have to do with anything?

Actually Las Vegas sells a number of things including culture. Pop culture perhaps but the real thing. And it sells food and entertainment and serves as a meeting place where the world gathers to do business. For the convention it has a set of facilities unmatched anywhere. And that role blends well with its others.

As to water Lake Mead serves Vegas and will serve Vegas down to dead pool...where water no longer flows over the dam. So Vegas is the final recipient of the Colorado. The agricultural community of California have little effective claim on the water and will lose in any battle of people against crops. In fact their great problem will be to keep the water from being diverted to the cities of CA. Note these agricultural interest are very bad water users mostly because they get the water so cheaply that conservation is hardly practiced.

Phoenix, which is not in the Mojave desert but in the Sonoran one, has multiple sources of water. It could get squeezed but not really hurt. Tucson is more vulnerable.

Doom merchants simple cannot accept reality...they have to sell their doomsday scenarios to justify their own beliefs. Presenting facts does little good...they know what they know.

[EA]

I LOVE living here, but I too am getting burned out. I can't get ahead here, no matter how hard I work. It's pointless to live here, the entertainment capital of the world, when you can't even afford to drive anywhere but work.
It's a strange set up they have here. I've started applying for jobs in other places, such as California and Texas. If I get a bite, I'm gone. I will really miss this weather. I love it, even at 115 degrees, I enjoy it.

[von949]

Originally Posted by EA

I LOVE living here, but I too am getting burned out. I can't get ahead here, no matter how hard I work. It's pointless to live here, the entertainment capital of the world, when you can't even afford to drive anywhere but work.
It's a strange set up they have here. I've started applying for jobs in other places, such as California and Texas. If I get a bite, I'm gone. I will really miss this weather. I love it, even at 115 degrees, I enjoy it.

I am sure the oil rich areas of Texas will bite. But before you jump ship to Texas, contact Cyborg about his experience and why he wants to leave Texas. Some really good insight.

[EA]

Oh? Last I talked to him, he was encouraging me to come out there.

[von949]

Originally Posted by EA

Oh? Last I talked to him, he was encouraging me to come out there.

How long ago was that?

Send him a DM.

[NLVgal]

I think we all get burned out on this place this time of year. I certainly do.
It will get better in September.

[SoHoVe]

Honestly, I'm glad I left for a few years if only because the strong points of Las Vegas that much more obvious in my mind. Things I took for granted I appreciate so much now that I've returned. Somethings I never gave a thought to (like utility rates) have proven to be such a welcome change.

For me...I've decided to good far outweighs the shortcomings...and ya there are still some pretty unhappy people there but I'm not sure they wouldn't be equally unhappy somewhere else at this point in their lives...not suggesting that is true for everyone ofcourse!

I've been back in Tx for 6 hrs to finish moving some odds and ends and countless times I have thought "oh I will just run out and pick whatever up" then I remember I'm not in Vegas right now and its a 30 min trip to get what I need :-\

[Willy702]

Originally Posted by von949

Seems that most people's financial situation greatly affects whether they love or hate this city(probably any city). During the boom years, everybody loved this place. Either they wanted to move here or make this place their second home.

Not the case for me now. I work as a consultant for a company in Vegas and they really want me to move back but I refuse. I could certainly make more money there at this point due to industry knowledge, but at some point one just has to decide what really matters to themselves.

I read all the posts in here and some of the positives applied to me at some point, but it just ran its course. I don't doubt some will spend a lifetime, but I question those who have been around for a year or two in being certain they will never leave. I was like that after a year or two, I really loved it there. Never liked some aspects like summer, but the pros outweighed the few cons. As time went on, the cons grew and the good points were losing importance. After 5 years it started getting old and after 10 years it just became a matter of having a good reason to get out finally come to me.