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Part of me thinks he did this to spur action by Congress knowing full and well it would tick them off.
He has a point. We all know that we can't logistically deport 11.5 million people.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't deport those where we find them. Which, according to the new memo released by Jeh, is exactly what's going to happen. They're not going to deport anyone with a deportation order prior to January 2014, they're not going to deport anyone who committed fraud and they're not going to deport anyone who would be eligible for the expanded DACA program.
We need to random deportation to deter others. And if that means family separation, then so be it. No rewards or special consideration for being in the U.S. illegally. There are many European countries who won't allow your family members to join you unless you've been in their country for a number of years legally and if you have a problem with it, join your family in your country of origin. They have no concept of reunification of family members that have no business being in the country to begin with. The U.S. grants benefits to parents of citizens. Not many other countries do that. Most countries are looking for ways to get rid of their old people and support the remainder in their last years. Not the U.S. The U.S. gives parents immediate relative status and waiving all sorts of inadmissibilities. All they do is cost tax payers money because they come in with health problems and no future employment. But.. this too I understand. Parents come into the US, live with their kids and babysit their grand kids, allowing the parent to work full time. Win-Win according to Obama. But on the other hand... This is 'Murica. Both parents will work full time anyways and pay someone else to watch their kids. That contributes more to the economy, right?
The bulk of Europe cuts off dependent kids at 18 instead of 21.
The whole "pay taxes" thing is toothless unless you partner DHS with IRS. Unfortunately, the majority of people (shockingly) lie on their applications about taxes because they know DHS won't check because they don't have the "resources" to check. So what good is it?
There has been no one in history that has attempted to swallow 11.5 million people at once. That's an entire country and it's crazy.
If the President is going to try and do this, the least he can do is get rid of asylum since the U.S. would be absorbing about 6 million uneducated and unskilled people who don't speak English, the same as the bulk of the asylum seekers. International laws say no one has to grant asylum. No one has to let anyone in to pursue asylum. Refugees are different because they are set by international agreements. But asylum claims... no one has to be let in to pursue them. Already Immigration Judges are going loopy in broadening the terms of what constitutes a protected category. They grant asylum to females for being female just because they come from a Machismo culture or South Korea, where women don't have equal pay. Whaaa?
So if I'm 100% honest, I don't give a patooey about the surge at the border. Send them packing, no questions, no rights, nothing. If they want to fight the deportation, then they can fight it from inside Mexico, the country which allowed them entry and passage. The same country which refuses to get it's own legal affairs in order but is now considering charging "Americans" money to pass. That's a lot of easy money. Citizens and these new DACA recipients going to Central America either pay the Mexican toll or spend the money booking a direct flight from a U.S. carrier and pay flight taxes. Win-win. Someone's going to make money off this and I can't blame Mexico for trying to get in the game.
And of course, there is the citizenship laws that should be revisited. Times change. The Constitution was made to be flexible.
I think it's time to revisit some laws.
I'm one of the few people that actually read the proposed dream act from 2012. And let me just say, that doing nothing would be better than passing that bill. That bill is basically over riding the last two major immigration reform enforcement and fee provisions. The amount of money they wanted to charge for just one "temporary" card wouldn't even cover the cost of the background checks.
Overall for this one?
I suppose, aside from the annoying lack of enforcement provisions, I'm okay with this experiment so long as it's short term. At the very least, it's going to cause a bump in revenue for three years. Easy GDP boost from their taxes and no shot at citizenship he claims. (But there is a shot of it. It's a round about way using case law, but it's still there unless he specifically cuts it off. Which he won't. He just didn't bring that up because the average citizen would really get angry if they knew that.)
It's good,alot of people were brought here as kids,and had no option. I know a person very close to me in this situation. It's really not fair to be held back over a line called a border. Overall,there are too many problems in our world,our country,our states, cities ,neighborhoods. Man cannot fix them,because we are human. Back to the topic though,I agree with this.
There has been no one in history that has attempted to swallow 11.5 million people at once. That's an entire country and it's crazy.
It wont stop at 11 million. This whole "path to citizenship" and "immigration" charade on the part of corporate elites, Gates, Buffett, Edelson et al is an attempt to compete with China in a population game of my country is bigger than your country. President Obama is just the bagman. As was president Bush before him.
It wont stop at 11 million. This whole "path to citizenship" and "immigration" charade on the part of corporate elites, Gates, Buffett, Edelson et al is an attempt to compete with China in a population game of my country is bigger than your country. President Obama is just the bagman. As was president Bush before him.
This is what irritates me.
Somehow these corporate morons think that if you legalize people who are working under the table, they'll stay put and be a good employee. Time and again, our history has shown us that as soon as you grant an unauthorized person employment rights, they will "move up". No one wants to stay at a dead end agricultural job if they can move into a management position. It was first seen with the end of slavery and it continues right on through with every single amnesty program around the world. People will move when they're allowed to.
They need a better migratory visa system that is cheap, easy and flexible based on needs. There are many people who really do want to just work, earn dough, and leave the U.S. to enjoy their life at home at a much lower cost of living. But they don't leave because of our immigration system trapping them and barring them from re-entry if they leave. The entire issue isn't caused by the trapping of course, but it's certainly a factor and accounts for some of the 11.5 million here without status.
Another issue for me is the President's current focus on the people themselves. Of course we want to get rid of the gang bangers. But now we've deported so many of them that they've organized and operate smuggling rings. The tunnels make the news every 6 months or so. Uh, Marijuana doesn't need ventilation and light. Is buying a few ground penetrating radars that expensive? I don't think so. Every construction engineering firm and a ton of law enforcement agencies has one or a few. They already know the areas where tunnels would be feasible. The expensive "per-construction" surveys are done. Does he not have military advisers or what? They could whip up a plan within a couple months, if not less. It's military 101 to cut off supplies to cut off the head. In Central and South America they're adults at 14 or younger. And the runners play on that. When I think of our soldiers having to engage with one adult 14 year old kids and the toll it would take on their sanity, I just don't know. But I think that the possibility of sending your 14 year old into a militarized zone would be a powerful deterrent. Not even the crazy North Korean government does that.
As for China... it's taken 40 years or so to realize that although they have a huge population, they have an even bigger country and they can actually fit all the people quite easily. Not only that, if they help them get educated, they can become a global force ourselves, bottom up, just like the West did and just like what Mexico is doing. So now they send their kids to the U.S. for school because they don't have enough good ones, and then the kids return home taking U.S. technology with them through legal or illegal means. So keeping college kids in the U.S. and loyal to the U.S. is a worthy goal too.
I support many things the President is trying to do. But I do not support his take on enforcement. Which is "hands off unless you're a hardened criminal". And I don't think Americans do either. I think most Americans are okay with a bit of random deportation and family separation. CPS takes kids away from their parents all the time while ignoring others. It's a potent deterrent letting people know their behavior is not acceptable either in terms of illegal immigration or in the case of CPS, child abuse/neglect.
Finally, I am darn tired of Central American countries saying, "Give us $2 billion a year or we'll let the invasion continue." We already pay off half the middle east to prevent terrorism, come the frig on. We can give them (or let them borrow) our old military construction equipment and help them build the infrastructure, but we should not be giving them any money to further corrupt them. Everyone knows in those countries labor is cheap but material is expensive, it's the opposite of the U.S. Would it really be more than $2 billion dollars to load an old boat (about to be decommissioned and sent to rot in some waterfront museum in a poor city) with old equipment and ship it there? Uh... no. Would it really cost us that much money to have a base there to guard the equipment while it's being constructed over the next few years? Uh no. We already have that in place too. Half of their population is already in the U.S. in construction jobs, so let them "donate" material to be shipped on subsequent ships or designate one. Is good concrete expensive? Uh... no. And there could be a tax write off too. So.. if all the material is cheap, as labor is super cheap, why should the U.S. give them money? Teach a man to fish and all that...
Like I said, laws need to be revisited and enforced.
I think it's far, far better than anything that Republicans have presented. Republicans have no plan. Obstructing the President is NOT a plan. I agree with President Obama's plan and admire him for his ability to articulate his ideas in a manner far more effective than any Republican could.
Congress is worthless now, with the Republicans doing nothing but grumbling and picking their noses, while they obstruct, obstruct, and obstruct. They are absolutely pathetic. They are no closer to having a plan on immigration than Bush had on how to balance the budget.
The part of immigration I have a problem with is the H1B system. Foreigners shouldn't be taking jobs from qualified Americans. Americans should be trained and retrained to do the work rather than bringing in foreigners just to maximize profit.
I'm curious...has anyone actually read the Immigration Bill the Senate passed????????
OMG..........it's as bad as our Federal Tax code.
I don't blame the House of Representatives for wanting the various provisions addressing the components of Immigration reform voted on separately.
Three billion dollars for protecting the border with Mexico!!
Yes I have. And it's garbage.
The President said, "It's not perfect but it's a start."
Uh... no Mr. President. It's not a start, it's two major immigration reforms backwards. Not only did they advocate removing enforcement provisions and advocated for a 3 year statute of limitations on fraud, but they wanted to reduce the fees to the point of where the fees aren't even enough to process the background checks. If that alone doesn't burn the millions of people who scrimped and saved to adjust under INA 245(i) by paying an additional $1000.00 on top of regular fees, then they don't deserve to vote. I mean, back in 2001, that was the equivalent of about $1300 today, and even more than that when you back date it to the original sunset provision of 1994. $1000.00 in 1994 is over $1600.00 in today's money, and the bill only wanted to charge them $500.00 initally, another $500.00 in 6 years. So each time they renew, the $500.00 is worth less and less. Like... whaaaat?
On top of paying no money, you would be admissible to the US so long as the fraud occurred before 2009, no matter how many lies and fraudulent documents you submitted to the U.S government. I mean, I know that after three years, you'll reveal your true identity, right? No one can go underground for three years and live just by their family sending them money, right? Uh...
Time and time again the American people have made it perfectly clear what is acceptable and unacceptable when you immigrate to the U.S. Two huge reforms have tried to address this. And the gang of 8 wants to undo all of it. They've provided no justification for undoing it either. The American people are moving towards more control and enforcement, not less you morons.
I don't think anyone in the gang of 8 read all of it, just checked to make sure their deals with other Congressional members were in it. Too much work. Like the healthcare law. You gotta pass it to know what's in it.
I think it's far, far better than anything that Republicans have presented. Republicans have no plan. Obstructing the President is NOT a plan. I agree with President Obama's plan and admire him for his ability to articulate his ideas in a manner far more effective than any Republican could.
Congress is worthless now, with the Republicans doing nothing but grumbling and picking their noses, while they obstruct, obstruct, and obstruct. They are absolutely pathetic. They are no closer to having a plan on immigration than Bush had on how to balance the budget.
The part of immigration I have a problem with is the H1B system. Foreigners shouldn't be taking jobs from qualified Americans. Americans should be trained and retrained to do the work rather than bringing in foreigners just to maximize profit.
It's not just about obstruction. It's about fighting someone who views himself as the sole savior of the country. Checks and balances was put in place for a reason. It's a slow process but it's effective for "checking" the branches and an important part of our democracy to balance the powers with the people.
I understand the President's frustration. As for the President's plan, can you articulate it? Do you think he read all 788 pages of the 2012 gang of 8 bill? Have you heard him say anything other than, "We have a STEM shortage and we need more kids in the U.S.!" Have you heard him articulate one concrete thing that could be done to better the immigration system other than whine about how it's not fair to "kids" brought to the U.S. to be sent back home?
You have a problem with H1Bs only. So I'm going to guess that you work in a STEM field or have personally suffered the consequences of an over abundant supply of lower skilled migrant workers. Either you or your spouse or a close family member. You must have some dog in the fight.
What about the millions of people who are going to demand government access and services while they take jobs away from low skilled citizens and use public funds that they did not contribute to?
Don't be an elitist. It's not only the educated who matter in this country.
Everyone claims that immigrants form most of the companies and patents in the U.S. and it's true. But the patents are owned by companies like Microsoft which use the low paid H1B's with questionable credentials. A good chunk of the computer/IT patents are made from independent IT firms, but they fail to say how many of those patents would hold up in a lawsuit because they were stolen from the L1B, H1B company that originally brought them to the U.S.
The other ones, they open a floor company or an independent consultant company. Cool. Except they LLC it, hire only household family members and use the LLC to make the company money go back to the family. They charge off all family expenses to the LLC. When the company goes under, they close shop without any liability and then open a new LLC.
Do you know what that means?
That's right my friend. That means they leave a string of debt from the various LLCs, create zero jobs for U.S. citizens and pay no taxes, while they got money back from the government for having children.
Way to boost our economy, eh?
Sure, some of these people are bringing skills that US citizens simply do not have anymore. Like woodworking and tailoring. But how many floor installers and painters do we need? Really? That many? No. They open the company because there is little to no work for them and they can make more use out of their limited income by forming their own LLC.
We all know that we can't logistically deport 11.5 million people.
I dunno. New Orleans sure seemed to move out a lot of "undesirables" during Katrina.
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