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Old 10-10-2019, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
8,325 posts, read 14,405,233 times
Reputation: 26882

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Sorry for the bizarre thread title, I am just really a bit flabbergasted by this.

I have a colleague who absolutely HATES the United States ... as in, I've known this person for more than 15 years and have NEVER heard one good word about the U.S. (and have heard a zillion words saying why it's a disgusting, horrible, racist country).

I knew she had a green card (which honestly, I thought was bad enough), but at a meeting a few weeks ago she mentioned that she had just become a U.S. CITIZEN. I was so horrified that I was literally speechless. Of course when I thought about it later, I wished I had said, "Wait a minute, all you have done for the past 15+ years is say how much you HATE this country, so how on earth did you get citizenship?"

And honestly, if I had KNOWN she was applying for U.S. citizenship, I would have protested (as if it would have made any difference). But I didn't.

How on earth does this happen?!
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
27,981 posts, read 18,363,558 times
Reputation: 43633
I think you need to ask her.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
8,325 posts, read 14,405,233 times
Reputation: 26882
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I think you need to ask her.
I would, but it would be extremely unpleasant, and she will accuse me of being racist. Ugh.

Any other ideas? I am really curious as to how U.S. citizenship HAPPENS -- i.e., doesn't the person have to pledge allegiance to the U.S.? Because if she did, she was lying (to say the least).

Mostly, I am flabbergasted that she would be so hypocritical as to become a U.S. citizen when she absolutely, positively HATES the U.S. It's a bit infuriating (and I am NOT, generally speaking, anti-immigrant).
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:30 PM
 
Location: 49th parallel
3,274 posts, read 1,852,617 times
Reputation: 6824
Well, she obviously doesn't hate the money she's earning here. I would guess that's a big part of the reason, if she hasn't come here with a spouse who's a US citizen.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle
8,580 posts, read 2,179,854 times
Reputation: 7200
Here are the requirements:

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/ed...on-information

Two in particular:
* Be a person of good moral character.
* Demonstrate an attachment to the principles and ideals of the U.S. Constitution.

If she fails either of these, then it sounds like she applied under false pretenses. There are some grounds for denaturalization:

https://immigration.findlaw.com/citi...-revoked-.html

Note though that there are people born and raised in the US who hate our society. But that may just mean they want to change it in a more positive direction. Freedom of speech includes the right to criticize the country.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
8,325 posts, read 14,405,233 times
Reputation: 26882
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
Here are the requirements:

https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/ed...on-information

Two in particular:
* Be a person of good moral character.
* Demonstrate an attachment to the principles and ideals of the U.S. Constitution.

If she fails either of these, then it sounds like she applied under false pretenses. There are some grounds for denaturalization:

https://immigration.findlaw.com/citi...-revoked-.html

Note though that there are people born and raised in the US who hate our society. But that may just mean they want to change it in a more positive direction. Freedom of speech includes the right to criticize the country.
Thanks.

And believe me, I understand the Constitution (I still remember having to pass a Constitution Test in the 8th grade in California back in 1973 -- it was a California state requirement that you had to pass before going on to high school -- and I passed with only 1 tiny mistake on a 3-day test, misspelling Warren Burger's last name because a close friend of mine had the last name Berger and I thought Warren Burger's last name was spelled the same way -- my score was something like 99.8%, and I thought the Constitution was absolutely fascinating!). In fact, I just emailed a big-time administrator at my college who asked for "feedback" on a form that basically says that anyone who says anything that could hurt (psychologically) any other person or cause them to feel bad about themselves is guilty of violating our "be nice" policy (OK, we don't call it that) DESPITE the fact that the policy is clearly a violation of freedom of speech ... so yes, I completely understand having the right to criticize the U.S. I frequently do so myself ... especially the current administration!

But this particular person has NEVER, in more than 15 years, said ANYTHING even remotely positive about the U.S., in fact quite the opposite (and for that matter, she has never in more than 15 years said anything even remotely positive about our college) ... yet she still got citizenship.

So no, I don't think she could in any way "demonstrate an attachment to the principles and ideals of the U.S. Constitution." (Or if the requirements to pass are so minimal that she could PASS that, then I am simply disgusted.)
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:49 PM
 
16,822 posts, read 2,034,412 times
Reputation: 27713
You can count actual cases of someone being stripped of naturalized citizenship for vocalizing personal view on probably one hand. Hello Freedom of Speech!
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
27,981 posts, read 18,363,558 times
Reputation: 43633
I think you should tell her that you never remember her being happy about being in the U.S., and you are surprised she decided to become a citizen. See what she says.

Is she married to an American? Does she have American children? Is there any reason to be fearful of her loyalties?
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
8,325 posts, read 14,405,233 times
Reputation: 26882
Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I think you should tell her that you never remember her being happy about being in the U.S., and you are surprised she decided to become a citizen. See what she says.

Is she married to an American? Does she have American children? Is there any reason to be fearful of her loyalties?
No U.S. spouse, no U.S. children. She is from Mexico (from an upper-middle-class family at least, as she paid tens of thousands of dollars for what I would consider to be a fake online Ph.D., i.e. absolutely worthless anywhere else). She goes to Mexico during college breaks, summer, sabbatical, etc. In fact she keeps threatening to apply for a job in Mexico and just leave us altogether. (You can imagine how I respond to that ... ... but it won't happen, she just loves to complain.)

She has no loyalty to the U.S. whatsoever. I mean, I have U.S. citizenship because my father was a U.S. veteran and I was born on a U.S. Air Force base overseas, and my favorite bumper sticker of all time (as I tell my students) is "Dissent is patriotic" -- so I ABSOLUTELY understand that to be critical of a place does NOT necessarily mean anything more than that you are disappointed in particular policies, administrations, or whatever. But this is a woman that I have known for more than 15 years now and she absolutely, positively HATES this country -- there is simply no doubt about that (and actually, I think if I asked her that outright, she would admit to it, as it appears to be part of her identity to be anti-American) -- but she still applied for -- and somehow GOT -- U.S. citizenship.

I'm sorry, but I HATE that she got it. It feels like such a gigantic LIE to me.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
27,981 posts, read 18,363,558 times
Reputation: 43633
I agree.
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