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In reality it’s millions of misogynist, colorist, racist opportunists who drive down wages and increase segregation. Multiculturalism is an abject failure at the nation state level. I haven’t even touched how importing millions is a detriment to the environment considering our per capita carbon footprint.
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Originally Posted by UrbanQuest
Agriculture, construction, restaurants and landscaping are all being automated, some at different places of development but the trend is by far loud and clear. I can provide you with multiple examples for automation in these industries that employ a good chunk of legal and illegal immigrants. As AI tech matures, almost no job will be safe, whether we like it or not. These businesses you worry so much about are going to embrace automation just like they embrace illegals and outsourcing as they do what they want.
Two failures in your reasoning of thought:
1. You're looking at it only from the perspective of the US side accounting, and failing to realize the massive jump in QOL from the immigrants side. Racist and misogynist? Nobody made them come over, they weren't slaves; they clearly want to be here. Explain how keeping people in Guatemala is better for the environment to me?
2. You're assuming we don't use / create more with increased output. The more you automate, the more you can produce. And this production isn't meaning we use more and more resources. GDP has kept growing (till this year) and energy consumption has been relatively flat.
That’s not stopping employers from hiring foreign talent for more nefarious reasons. Americans training their foreign replacements is the obvious example. What “we need here” is so nebulous a statement, it’s silly. Critical talent needs is one thing as it equates to thousands of people, not hundreds of thousands. We’re outsourcing jobs anyway, so why don’t we levy a tariff tax on these workers?
Well, I think a needs based system would deter ‘hiring for nefarious reasons’ and should seriously reduce the numbers. We need astrophysicists? The genius scientist from Cameroon is in! We don’t need anymore chefs or au pairs and such. IMO. Well, au pairs usually come in on J1 visas, temporary but for the duration of their status. There are DOL requirements for employment based immigration visas that would be applied but perhaps they would need to be much more rigid. I don’t have a problem with that.
Honestly, none. I have nothing against immigrants, and I wouldn't send anyone back who has an established life here, but wages should be raised, not more people brought in to keep them low or drive them lower. I work as a computer programmer and it took me almost 2 years to find a job when I had no experience, meanwhile they can't get enough of H1Bs for those positions, who they hire for less obviously, and those people often end up getting into great paying positions and becoming citizens after a few years of work. You can train Americans to do those jobs too, they're honestly not as difficult as companies would have you believe.
Instead they claim there aren't enough qualified Americans by making interviews ridiculously difficult, and in their place they bring in H1Bs, which they have to train just the same. I used to think this was a career path for geniuses based on how difficult some interview questions I was getting were, but after getting in and working for a few years, I'm surprised by how incompetent some people are, both H1B and American, so it's definitely not an issue with Americans being too stupid for the field. Most people do just fine, and I've met people who have transitioned into this from all walks of life and all fields, both technical and nontechnical.
As long as Joe Farmer refuses to pay his cropworkers a living wage, Americans by and large will refuse to work for him. Not to fear though - plenty of subsistence workers from other countries are eager to fill those positions. But the legal immigration process costs a lot of money. If they had a lot of money, they wouldn't need below-minimum-wage jobs. So truck them in, put them to work, and you only have to pay $2.99 for a pound of Beefsteaks instead of the $8.99 it would cost if all farm workers in this country were legal immigrants.
Some farms just flat out closed shop when the whole "wall, illegals, all mexicans are thugs and rapists" hyperbole took over the news rags. Taking a loss on the farm was less expensive than letting go all those workers and paying Americans a living wage.
What I'd like to see...
is a much more steamlined path to LEGAL citizenship or visitor visas. We don't need ONLY the smartest, best, brightest, wealthiest, most educated immigrants to come. We also need the ones who are eager to do the jobs that us snooty elitist better-than-thou Americans refuse to do.
If we only need the smartest and brightest, what does that say about the "quality" of our own true-born citizens here? Tells me we are inferior. If we weren't, we wouldn't need to pull in the best from somewhere else. The best would already be here.
And since we're not the best, how do we know we're wrong about all those other things? How do we know we're not wrong that the less-bright, less-brilliant, less-affluent immigrants are equally important to our economy?
Answer: we don't. We believe what we read in the headlines of whichever media we have chosen to be "not fake news." And since we are clearly inferior to those brighter, brillianter, more affluent immigrants we're trying to ship here, we are too dumb to know which media source really IS fake news and which isn't.
So in a nutshell - we're a bunch of dumb ignorant humanoids choosing to invite superior people to our country to take our jobs, while (what we pretend to think are) inferior people who are eager to do jobs we think we're too good for, suffer on the other side of the border.
I'd like to see American citizens take a citizenship test. It should be required as of your 16th birthday, and once more when you turn 40. If you can't pass it, you get deported to wherever your ancestors came from.
Pro-tip: most people claiming 2nd and 3rd generation citizenship to our country, can't pass that test.
As long as Joe Farmer refuses to pay his cropworkers a living wage, Americans by and large will refuse to work for him...
Some farms just flat out closed shop when the whole "wall, illegals, all mexicans are thugs and rapists" hyperbole took over the news rags. Taking a loss on the farm was less expensive than letting go all those workers and paying Americans a living wage.
What I'd like to see...
is a much more steamlined path to LEGAL citizenship or visitor visas. We don't need ONLY the smartest, best, brightest, wealthiest, most educated immigrants to come. We also need the ones who are eager to do the jobs that us snooty elitist better-than-thou Americans refuse to do.
A path to citizenship turns illegals into legal Americans and they will no longer need or accept cropworker slave wages, then the farmers will have to pay a living wage to the same illegals they have now or a new illegal segment will have to be imported.
Well, I think a needs based system would deter ‘hiring for nefarious reasons’ and should seriously reduce the numbers. We need astrophysicists? The genius scientist from Cameroon is in! We don’t need anymore chefs or au pairs and such. IMO. Well, au pairs usually come in on J1 visas, temporary but for the duration of their status. There are DOL requirements for employment based immigration visas that would be applied but perhaps they would need to be much more rigid. I don’t have a problem with that.
Who decides what’s needed, the nefarious employers that’s who. People who are worried about SS and tax revenue when they themselves have no stake in them. If your for it, your either making a lot of money off mass immigration or you have an ethnic/political angle. Not things I will ever see eye to eye with.
A few thousand “specialists” a year is all we need and that’s stretching it, in reality what is wanted is wage killing armies of worker drones so that we can “compete”. Give me a brake..
1. You're looking at it only from the perspective of the US side accounting, and failing to realize the massive jump in QOL from the immigrants side. Racist and misogynist? Nobody made them come over, they weren't slaves; they clearly want to be here. Explain how keeping people in Guatemala is better for the environment to me?
2. You're assuming we don't use / create more with increased output. The more you automate, the more you can produce. And this production isn't meaning we use more and more resources. GDP has kept growing (till this year) and energy consumption has been relatively flat.
1. Answer: Carbon footprint in Guatemala is much lower than here and almost every immigrant or decedent I have met from Florida to California to the Northeast harbored colorist/racist attitudes with few exceptions. They won’t show it to liberal whites or blacks they encounter but I’m neither. This country definitely doesn’t need any more of that.
2. Answer: Last time I checked our economy isn’t a green one. The planet is using more resources than we ever had in history and it isn’t even close. Since 1770 it’s been an upward trajectory without interruption. It will be forced to end when the global population starts shrinking though QOL increases will keep consumption elevated for a time after(though this can’t happen without automation). You spout conjecture where I am simply pointing out the writing on the wall. Just go outside and witness it for yourself. A kindergartner could do it.
And since we're not the best, how do we know we're wrong about all those other things? How do we know we're not wrong that the less-bright, less-brilliant, less-affluent immigrants are equally important to our economy?
Answer: we don't. We believe what we read in the headlines of whichever media we have chosen to be "not fake news." And since we are clearly inferior to those brighter, brillianter, more affluent immigrants we're trying to ship here, we are too dumb to know which media source really IS fake news and which isn't.
This however isn't true, maybe at the very top of every field if you're looking to fill research positions at top universities, it's obviously better to have the whole world to pick the very best, this would be true anywhere in the world, but for middle of the road engineering and computer programming positions we most certainly do not need to import people from overseas to save companies some money in the short term, only to block Americans from starting one of the few guaranteed paths into the middle class. I've worked on teams that were close to half H1B workers, and they are not better or brighter than Americans entering this field. Many are good, some are awful, not really much different than Americans, and there is no shortage of people here that can do those jobs. I work with many who don't come from a traditional university programming path, and they're some of the best programmers I've worked with. When an H1B starts they need to be trained for several months before they are competent, if an American starts it's the same story if it's an entry level position. The difference is companies are unwilling to hire and train Americans, or at the very least they make it as difficult as possible in favor of cheaper H1B applicants.
I don't have to read any media to come this conclusion as this is what I've observed first hand, though maddeningly, everything that I've read in the media says the exact opposite, probably driving this acceptance of bringing in foreign workers into this oversaturated field.
1. Answer: Carbon footprint in Guatemala is much lower than here and almost every immigrant or decedent I have met from Florida to California to the Northeast harbored colorist/racist attitudes with few exceptions. They won’t show it to liberal whites or blacks they encounter but I’m neither. This country definitely doesn’t need any more of that.
2. Answer: Last time I checked our economy isn’t a green one. The planet is using more resources than we ever had in history and it isn’t even close. Since 1770 it’s been an upward trajectory without interruption. It will be forced to end when the global population starts shrinking though QOL increases will keep consumption elevated for a time after(though this can’t happen without automation). You spout conjecture where I am simply pointing out the writing on the wall. Just go outside and witness it for yourself. A kindergartner could do it.
1. Yep, carbon is the biggest evil ever and global warming will kill us all because Miami flooded.... Never mind they are slicing up the very biodiverse Guatemala because there's so many people per square mile there and they have to eat somehow. That's people... some are racist, some are not. Americans happen to be less racist than most places, despite what the morons in BLM will say. Being an immigrant here lessens racist attitudes than if they stayed home likely.
2. Yeah, and the world supports 7 billion highly intelligent beings AND is still half untouched or lightly touched. It could support more less intelligent beings and no humans and that would be preferable to people like you. No, things are not all worse. Forest cover is going up, not down. Pollution is decreasing most places. Animal life is exploding in the arctic (due to warming). QOL is not going down, you just have your narrative you can't see past. I spend more time outside than most people and what I'm seeing is an improving Colorado. Moose where there were none; elk where they didn't use to be; healthier and more thinned yet less burned forests. And the state added 1 million people since I've been a kid. Maybe you should get out more?
1. Yep, carbon is the biggest evil ever and global warming will kill us all because Miami flooded.... Never mind they are slicing up the very biodiverse Guatemala because there's so many people per square mile there and they have to eat somehow. That's people... some are racist, some are not. Americans happen to be less racist than most places, despite what the morons in BLM will say. Being an immigrant here lessens racist attitudes than if they stayed home likely.
2. Yeah, and the world supports 7 billion highly intelligent beings AND is still half untouched or lightly touched. It could support more less intelligent beings and no humans and that would be preferable to people like you. No, things are not all worse. Forest cover is going up, not down. Pollution is decreasing most places. Animal life is exploding in the arctic (due to warming). QOL is not going down, you just have your narrative you can't see past. I spend more time outside than most people and what I'm seeing is an improving Colorado. Moose where there were none; elk where they didn't use to be; healthier and more thinned yet less burned forests. And the state added 1 million people since I've been a kid. Maybe you should get out more?
So racism is a natural state of being? No it’s actually a completely fabricated tenet born from colonialism. History clearly establishes this truth. We are trying to purge ourselves of that reality and importing those who would slow that down by the millions is ridiculous. And no being here doesn’t change them as they sequester off into self segregated communities. To import them for the sake of greed (ala transatlantic slave trade) makes it even more contentious.
Forest cover shrinkage has slowed not reversed. Who are you kidding? I can provide as many links on the subject as you want. Can you? Pollution decreasing (do mean due to Covid?)? Are we talking globally or Colorado?
Thinned yet less burned? How where they thinned, did they go on a diet? Nice your seeing more Elk, I like that. More Elk is good, much much more immigrants is not and I bet the Elk would agree with me.
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