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Old 11-08-2008, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,146 posts, read 38,746,463 times
Reputation: 3830

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBeez View Post
Sorry, I wasnt clear in my earlier post. The employee salaries are the same, its the additional costs to the employer is what makes it much more expensive overall for H1-Bs. The employer attorney costs, the relocation costs, sometimes the employer even has to be the employees attorneys fees as well. So overall, because there arent enough potential employees here, the companies have to pay additional fees (legal, housing, etc.) for H1-Bs.
Understand now: the 'hidden costs' involved, thanks for the clarification.
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Old 11-08-2008, 01:31 PM
 
2,541 posts, read 10,667,457 times
Reputation: 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBeez View Post
You guys have no idea what an H1-B visa is do you? If there were people here who had the skills for those positions there would not be a need for H1-B. Those people are almost always quant analysts with heavy financial modeling experience. Do any of you or any of your friends have this ability? If not, them maybe you should just shut up about complaining about H1-B until you do more research.

Companies that sponsor H1-B workers are now few and far between except in the tech sector who require specific abilities and knowledge and you do know that the government only allows a certain number of H1-B visas per year right?

Overall, the H1-B program does not affect unemployment figures at all in this country because employers are required to try to find US citizens who have the skills/experience/abilities for those positions FIRST before considering and H1-B candidate. Plus, H1-B candidates cost the employers much more than if they hired US citizen for the position.
How could that possibly be?

We dont have enough qualified people? Really

How does India have enough?

We literally invented the whole tech sector

in the 80's and early 90's India was a 3rd world country

How did they make such a huge leap so quickly? How did china?

We do not have anyone who can do quant analysis, and heavy finance modeling?

What do they teach in College Comp Sci classes?
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Old 11-09-2008, 06:49 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 10,434,915 times
Reputation: 1103
Quote:
Just as he did around the same time last year before a U.S. Senate committee, Gates on Wednesday contended America's competitiveness in the global economy is "at risk." He said Congress, the administration, and the next president must commit to overhauling immigration policy and encouraging both public and private research investment.
"It makes no sense to educate people in our universities, often subsidized by U.S. taxpayers, and then insist they return home," he told the House of Representatives Science and Technology Committee during a two-hour hearing.
* * * *

Ron Hira, a public policy professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology and author of the book Outsourcing America, told CNET News.com on Wednesday that it's wrong for Gates to imply that most H-1Bs are going to the brightest foreigners with advanced degrees and earning them big bucks. According to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the typical H-1B holder holds a bachelor's degree and is making a median salary of $50,000. And the same NSF report referenced by Gates says less than 1 percent of H-1B recipients in computer-related professions even hold doctoral degrees, and about 44 percent hold master's degrees.

Bill Gates to Congress: Let us hire more foreigners | Tech news blog - CNET News
Out of one side of his mouth it is claimed by Bill Gates himself, that H1B's are the best and the brightest despite their being educated in America with our tax dollars. Yet out of the other side of his mouth he proclaims that Americans are not the best and brightest because of the lack of advanced math and science being taught in our universities.

At the end of the day there is no shortage of Americans willing or able to fill these these so-called "top paying" positions. Like every other group of foreign workers in this country, the H1B's, are more willing to accept a lower wage, have no benefits and will do whatever it takes to remain in the US. Additionally, they are not under the jurisdiction of US labor laws. Gates and other greedy corporate execs simply wish to have it both ways by supressing wages, in order to continue to enjoy their windfall profits.

This is nothing more than simply demanding that the tech industry be considered above all labor laws at the expense of America, its workers and our tax dollars.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 11-09-2008 at 07:07 AM..
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:54 AM
 
Location: SoCal - Sherman Oaks & Woodland Hills
12,977 posts, read 31,054,345 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
At the end of the day there is no shortage of Americans willing or able to fill these these so-called "top paying" positions. Like every other group of foreign workers in this country, the H1B's, are more willing to accept a lower wage, have no benefits and will do whatever it takes to remain in the US. Additionally, they are not under the jurisdiction of US labor laws.
I totally disagree with you on this. There really is a shortage of Americans with the necessary skills to fill those positions. This is due primarily to the fact that the number of American students enrolled in advanced mathematics and computer science classes at universities have plummeted in recent years. You go to any university and you'll notice that an overwhelming majority of students in the Ph. D. computer sciences programs are indeed students from China and India who are here on student visas.

The wages (salary ranges) and benefits (offered post employment) for these positions are already in place, so companies cannot and do not offer lower pay and no benefits to these specific employees as they will be in direct violation U.S. labor laws subject themselves to heavy fines and penalties by the OFCCP and EEOC.

Believe me, companies would rather hire US citizens for these positions but unfortunately, American just arent going to school and obtaining the necessary specific technical education required to be hired into these roles.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:56 AM
 
6,018 posts, read 7,205,230 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes/no View Post
It's all about cheaper immigrant labor so the CEO's can get even bigger bonuses.

H-1B High-Tech Visas | NumbersUSA
politicians nor some americans dont or cant see the obvious
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Old 11-09-2008, 03:49 PM
 
26,863 posts, read 41,953,572 times
Reputation: 15114
H1B Visa Fraud uncovered expect more legislation

H1B Visa Fraud uncovered expect more legislation

Blatant fraud has been discovered in the H1B visa program, as if there was not enough problems already with the economy, add this to the list of things that need to be changed.

In a report released by the USCIS, the US Citizenship and Immigration Service, has indicated that upwards of 1 in 5 (or 20%) of all H1B visas contain serious errors, such as faked addresses, fake degrees, and other structural errors indicating that employers are seriously violating the H1B visa program. The H1B visa program is already majorly unpopular in technical circles even though technology employers insist that they need the program to remain competitive.


"It is clear that oversight, including an auditing function, are desperately needed to clean up the corruption," Hira said. "But we shouldn't forget that the major problems with the H-1B program are caused by massive loopholes that allow firms to legally pay below-market wages and displace and undercut American workers. Those wouldn't show up in this investigation because they are entirely legal and wouldn't be considered fraudulent or a violation." Grassley and Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) have been ardent critics of the H-1B program, pushing for reforms and tougher enforcement. Source: Computer World

click on the link to read more...
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:59 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 15,803,789 times
Reputation: 3685
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
These are the jobs that would help to rebuild the economy, not the illegal Mexican laborer.
Seriously. We have plenty of minimum wage jobs. The H1b are the ones who have REALLY decimated the American economy. Those are the middle class jobs everyone wants.
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Old 11-12-2008, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Houston
529 posts, read 1,206,338 times
Reputation: 373
I have been in different top grad programs in both CS and Math and I have to say there are not enough Americans who are smart enough and want to spend several more years studying. Most of the smart ones have been hired already as soon as they finish college and are getting top dollars or either want to become lawyers or doctors, my company recruits from MIT, Stanford, CMU, etc and pays $70k+ plus bonus starting out to these college grads and they wish they were able to hire more smart kids but they are not enough! All the top companies are fighting to recruit the same kids! That's why they need to hire foreigners with comparable skills.
There might be thousands of Americans with BAs in English, Comm, Women Studies without a job and such but what's their use for companies in the tech and finance sector?? Grad school is mostly FREE is you are smart enough and plan to go to sciences or engineering, but people don't take advantage of it.
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Old 11-12-2008, 03:34 PM
 
Location: SoCal
144 posts, read 568,113 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by elikhom View Post
I have been in different top grad programs in both CS and Math and I have to say there are not enough Americans who are smart enough and want to spend several more years studying. Most of the smart ones have been hired already as soon as they finish college and are getting top dollars or either want to become lawyers or doctors, my company recruits from MIT, Stanford, CMU, etc and pays $70k+ plus bonus starting out to these college grads and they wish they were able to hire more smart kids but they are not enough! All the top companies are fighting to recruit the same kids! That's why they need to hire foreigners with comparable skills.
There might be thousands of Americans with BAs in English, Comm, Women Studies without a job and such but what's their use for companies in the tech and finance sector?? Grad school is mostly FREE is you are smart enough and plan to go to sciences or engineering, but people don't take advantage of it.
I agree especially in the silicon valley, where most Stanford grads that are technical easily fetch $75k+ plus bonuses upon graduation. The big tech company contract rates (H1Bs included) are in excess $100+/hr, most are at $150+/hr for experienced labor. To fetch these contract rates you have to an expert in your field with 7+ years of experience min. Of course this doesn't mean the actual contractor makes that much but the contracting companies that provide the labor are making huge amounts of money.

With these high rates you may ask why don't these companies just hire instead of contracting well it all comes down to the bottom line and virtually no risk for contracting. Here are a few key points:
-not reflected on bottom line as operating costs/salaries (usually assigned some special project designation which escapes shareholder scrutiny)
-contractor needs little training (should be able to hit the ground running day 1, as opposed to new college grad)
-if he doesn't work out you plug in another one
-when a project/work ends they are cut
-virtually unlimted supply from India/China
-no benefits keeps companys cost structure low (no vacations, training, 401k, options)
-contractor has no rights (doesn't complain, cause any HR trouble)
-they do grunt/mundane tasks (people who use to do these tasks just manage them now, now they are PMs=)
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:17 PM
 
8,240 posts, read 15,803,789 times
Reputation: 3685
Quote:
Originally Posted by elikhom View Post
I have been in different top grad programs in both CS and Math and I have to say there are not enough Americans who are smart enough and want to spend several more years studying. Most of the smart ones have been hired already as soon as they finish college and are getting top dollars or either want to become lawyers or doctors, my company recruits from MIT, Stanford, CMU, etc and pays $70k+ plus bonus starting out to these college grads and they wish they were able to hire more smart kids but they are not enough! All the top companies are fighting to recruit the same kids! That's why they need to hire foreigners with comparable skills.
There might be thousands of Americans with BAs in English, Comm, Women Studies without a job and such but what's their use for companies in the tech and finance sector?? Grad school is mostly FREE is you are smart enough and plan to go to sciences or engineering, but people don't take advantage of it.
It's not a question of being 'smart'. It's a question of salary. Who wants to bust their a## for 4 years in undergraduate, then 2 in grad and 5+ in a phd program when you will compete with foreigners who will work for nothing just for the privilege of leaving crowded cesspool countries??
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