Allentown,PA Needs SKYSCRAPERS to improve (Philadelphia, Bethlehem: apartments, condominiums, loans)

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Stokes

I have lived in both Allentown and Philadelphia, and there is no way that Allentown's central core is denser than most any part of Philadelphia, with the exception of the farthest reaches of NW Phila and other extremities.

If you don't believe me look at this table.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

Keep in mind that the 18102 zip code has jumped to over 18000 people per square mile in the 2010 census. That makes it more dense than all but the top 14 zip codes in Philadelphia which contain roughly 35% of the population of the city.

Now the densest portion of Philadelphia, zip code 19103, has 32000 people per square mile, which is more like Brooklyn (36,356 per square mile).


A lot of people are crowding into center city Allentown in recent years.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Panasonic is building a high rise in Newark , and other Suburban Jersey companies are looking to move to Newark.

The Panasonic building is getting massive subsidies, and it is minutes from a PATH station. They can ride a train to the World Trade Center in 22-24 minutes for $2 or less each way.

I'm not sure that your examples carry over to small cities in southeastern PA (York, Reading, Harrisburg, Allentown).

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Part of the reason for it being slow is the congestion and waiting to merge into the NEC , by 2030 they hope shave off 30 mins....by adding more tracks and a Grade Separated Interchange in Newark... The Lehigh will get 2 lines , one to Newark via the Raritan Valley and one to Newark via Morristown which will be the slowest line but better connected to the Job corridor in NJ. The Future in General will be faster for Rail in NJ and then PA....

Sounds wonderful.

NJ Transit cut off service to Phillipsburg almost as soon as they assumed responsibility for commuter rail in NJ in 1983. In 1989 they severed the rail line with construction on I78. Estimates are $90 million to restore service to Phillipsburg. With only 12K people a day using the line, I just don't see it as a very high priority.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

The Panasonic building is getting massive subsidies, and it is minutes from a PATH station. They can ride a train to the World Trade Center in 22-24 minutes for $2 or less each way.

I'm not sure that your examples carry over to small cities in southeastern PA (York, Reading, Harrisburg, Allentown).

The White Plains companies didn't get subsides , in that case it was the cheaper land 25min train rides to Grand Central. The Smaller Companies often don't need to be pampered with incentives... As for Newark , hopefully this sparks the start of something. Aside from the Incentives , the stated that they choose Newark due to it being at the JCT of the states Transportation network. PA a whole different ball game , more complex and has its priorities all messed up.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

Sounds wonderful.

NJ Transit cut off service to Phillipsburg almost as soon as they assumed responsibility for commuter rail in NJ in 1983. In 1989 they severed the rail line with construction on I78. Estimates are $90 million to restore service to Phillipsburg. With only 12K people a day using the line, I just don't see it as a very high priority.

The Lackawanna Cut Off is expected to get between 9-20k depending on what gets built on the PA side... Before anything goes to Philpsburg , they need to increase capacity on both lines and restore some old branches that were ripped up. Like the Old Boonton line which ended in 2002 , and many admit that was a mistake. It was before NJT got into squeezing land usage around stations which has added over 200k to the system since 2004. And before they made sure connecting buses or LRT met the train at the station. It wasn't like ending the Boonton line saved time , it added 15 mins to the journey when they merged the Montclair line.... All the Regional Rail Expansions add up to 3 Billion $$$ but would add over 600-800,000 riders...mostly bus users.. So I would expect to see Philpsburg to start moving later this decade. But then again you never know , the Lackawanna project seem to come out of nowhere.

[Mr. Stokes]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

If you don't believe me look at this table.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

Keep in mind that the 18102 zip code has jumped to over 18000 people per square mile in the 2010 census. That makes it more dense than all but the top 14 zip codes in Philadelphia which contain roughly 35% of the population of the city.

Now the densest portion of Philadelphia, zip code 19103, has 32000 people per square mile, which is more like Brooklyn (36,356 per square mile).


A lot of people are crowding into center city Allentown in recent years.

Very good, so there is interest in the central parts of Allentown in residential terms. I'm wondering: has this spawned any new construction in the 18102 zip code? If people are moving into town, and the population keeps rising...perhaps some subsidies might help catalyze a building boom? And darn it...why is it so hard for Americans to develop a rail system that comfortably and efficiently gets people from poiny A tro point B? I look back to a conference in Wittenberg, Germany with fondness, including the excellent train ride from and to Berlin (not the ICE), which was fast and clean.

[julian17033]

I too have been frustrated at the lack of focus on mass rail transit in the United States.
I would fully support large amounts of tax monies and subsidies to be spent on rail infrastructure and subsidies but it is not the view of the majority of citizenry in this country.
Any mass commuter rail has to be government owned and non profit in order for it to become a true utility.

Americans as a whole do not want to spend money on something that would be for the common good of this country concerning day to day living.

Extremely sad.

Originally Posted by Mr. Stokes

Very good, so there is interest in the central parts of Allentown in residential terms. I'm wondering: has this spawned any new construction in the 18102 zip code? If people are moving into town, and the population keeps rising...perhaps some subsidies might help catalyze a building boom? And darn it...why is it so hard for Americans to develop a rail system that comfortably and efficiently gets people from poiny A tro point B? I look back to a conference in Wittenberg, Germany with fondness, including the excellent train ride from and to Berlin (not the ICE), which was fast and clean.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Stokes

Other than the hockey arena project, has humility trumped ego?

I did a survey of all 30 minor league hockey venues in the USA and Canada. The only ones that cost in the same ballpark as the proposed Allentown venue ($220 million) were the five venues that also support Major League Basketball.

Look at the five venues constructed or completely renovated in the past decade. Average construction or renovation costs was $67.44 million.

I am of the opinion that we are being sold the Brooklyn Bridge with this Allentown hockey rink. Back of the envelope says if they sell out every home game, they barely make enough to pay the interest on that debt load.

Harrison NJ was seduced into building a $220 million soccer arena. They were titillated by promises of significant ancillary development that would grow up around the stadium. Now, two years later, they are facing bankruptcy.

Harrison "issued a significant amount of debt to foster redevelopment, and continues to collect substantially less revenue from those developments than projected," Moody's explains. One of the largest projects is the $200 million Red Bull Arena, which was opened in March 2010 and cost the city $39 million in debt but has yet failed to have the expected returns. To help solve its debt problem, the city, which has a population of 13,620, plans to fire some police officers and firefighters.

[DarkWolf]

The Harrison Development is just taking off as we speak , Construction is underway. The Recession was to blame for the slowness of the developments but now that NYC and Urban Jersey is on the upswing so is Harrison... There were plans of Redeveloping before the Stadium was hatched... The Developments should all be completed by 2025. As for the low Attendance , its strange because its located next to Newark which a huge Soccer base , so is Harrison and nearby Kearny. Alot of the locals i spoke with were turned off by the Name "New York Red Bulls" and the Bad players....they said they would attend if the Name was changed to something that reflected the area around the Arena either rename it after Harrison or Newark , or even New Jersey , and ditch the "Red Bulls" part which many see as a corporate name....and the team seems to be the only one who named there team after a product and not something to reflect the local area or region representing the team. Theres now talk of building a Floating Arena in Manhattan , and Queens and one day having 3 regional teams so NJ would get there own team.... that's 15 years away...

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Alot of the locals i spoke with were turned off by the Name "New York Red Bulls" and the Bad players....they said they would attend if the Name was changed to something that reflected the area around the Arena either rename it after Harrison or Newark , or even New Jersey , and ditch the "Red Bulls" part which many see as a corporate name....and the team seems to be the only one who named there team after a product and not something to reflect the local area or region representing the team.

I can sort of understand that, but the other stadiums in the Northeast are Gillette Stadium in Boston, and PPL Park outside of Philadelphia.

But my principal comment was that for the same money you are talking about a much bigger arena with much better transit options, and a much bigger local population than Allentown can offer. Yet still, Harrison is still in the red. What chance does Allentown have even if it sells out every game. It isn't enough money to pay for a stadium of that huge expense. There would have to be at least one more draw to fill the arena another 4 dozen times a year. I don't see any major basketball teams, or anything else on the horizon.