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Old 02-27-2012, 11:33 AM
 
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Those of you that are good with finding stats, can you find a link that shows where people in the Lehigh Valley work?

Just thinking of people I know, they seem to work all over. I know several pilots that fly out of EWR, people that work in King of Prussia, Montgomeryville, here in the Lehigh Valley and quite a few people that work out of their homes but travel all over- either the country, the east coast or just PA. I can't think of anyone that works a 9 - 5, 7 days a week job in Philadelphia or NYC proper. I also can't think of anyone that works in Reading, but my guess is that people that commute to Reading probably live on the Western edge of the county.

I realize that, as Paco put it so well, that no matter what we think or feel, the demarcation line for the metro inclusion areas is out of our hands, so I'm just curious about where people really are commuting to.

I'm just as comfortable taking the train into Philly from Lansdale as I am taking the Bieber bus into NYC, but I wouldn't want to do either one every day.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
Those of you that are good with finding stats, can you find a link that shows where people in the Lehigh Valley work?

I realize that, as Paco put it so well, that no matter what we think or feel, the demarcation line for the metro inclusion areas is out of our hands, so I'm just curious about where people really are commuting to.

I'm just as comfortable taking the train into Philly from Lansdale as I am taking the Bieber bus into NYC, but I wouldn't want to do either one every day.
I saw a study that talk about public transport (particularly trains) and they said that the number of people who work in Philadelphia has declined drastically in the past few years. A lot of people work in the King of Prussia area, so a bus route to the mall was on the list.

They also talked about getting to Raritan, NJ. Raritan is the last stop on the "frequent NJ Trains runs". The longer distance commuter trains to Clinton NJ only run about half as often. The distance from the ABE airport to this station is 53 miles. Some people work in this area of NJ.

Because Warren county is so sparse, and has it's biggest population center in Phillipsburg, the census department includes Warren County with ABE metropolitan area. I think the census bureau has gone back and forth on this decision, as Hackettstown and Washington are more oriented towards New York


The private bus companies are good about catering to people who need to go to the city 5 round trips in 30 days, (or 10, 15, and 20) while public transport often does not have so many gradations in tickets. Public transport like to start the month on the 1st of the calendar month, while the private bus companies start the 30 days on a day of your choosing.

The problem with restarting trains, here and everywhere in the country, is that when they were discontinued in 1976-1982 the majority of people were trying to get to center city.

While buses seem slow, one of the biggest problems is that they make so many intermediate stops. In Mexico where buses are very heavily used (even among the middle class), most routes are not milk runs. You have one bus that goes from Bethlehem to NYC, and another that goes from Easton to NYC, and yet another bus that goes from Clinton to NYC. What we know as a typical bus route in the USA is usually called a 2nd class bus route in Mexico.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:06 PM
 
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I wasn't thinking so much about public transportation as I was just wondering where people work who live in the Lehigh Valley. I don't think the bus service is as good to Philly as it is to NYC but I think just as many people, if not more, do work South of here, whether it's in Philadelphia or King of Prussia. My husband worked for many years in K of P while we lived in both Delaware and Chester counties, and that was very much the norm. I think where one works has something to do with your loyalties or knowledge of another area. Traffic wise, I hit just as much traffic going West on 78 towards NYC as I do going South on the turnpike.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:15 PM
 
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Default Local Employment Dynamics

Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I wasn't thinking so much about public transportation as I was just wondering where people work who live in the Lehigh Valley.
I suspect this information may have changed since 2009. Clearly if it was adjusted for salary there would be better explanations for the long commutes.

Source: U.S. Department of Commerce, Local Employment Dynamics, On The Map for the Lehigh Valley Workforce Investment Area


More than 35% of LV employed residents work outside of the Valley.
268,000 Lehigh Valley residents had at least one primary job in 2009.

• 96,000 of them worked outside of our region.

There were 252,000 primary jobs in the Lehigh Valley.
• 172,000 of the jobs were held by residents.
• 80,000 were held by inbound commuters.

The largest destinations for Lehigh Valley commuters are:

• Philadelphia, PA 5,690 2.1% of Total
• New York, NY 2,580 1.0%
• Phillipsburg, NJ 1,858 0.7%
• Newark, NJ 1,080 0.4%
• Quakertown, PA 990 0.4%
• Middletown, PA 980 0.4%
• King of Prussia, PA 960 0.4%
• Reading, PA 820 0.3%
• East Stroudsburg, PA 820 0.3%
• Harrisburg, PA 760 0.3%
• Eastlawn, PA 580 0.2%
• Horsham, PA 570 0.2%
• Blue Bell, PA 530 0.2%

This study must be defining Lehigh Valley as Lehigh and Northampton counties, instead of the broader definition of the 4 county area used by the census bureau. If 80K are commuters, and 96K work outside of the valley, then clearly Warren County and Carbon county are consider outside of the valley.

Philadelphia county (also Philadelphia City since 1855) peaked in population in 1950 at 2,071,605. It reached a low of 1,517,550 in the year 2000, and has recovered slightly (0.56%) to 1,526,006 in the year 2010.

Philadelphia is probably getting some Latino immigration from NYC, same as Allentown, Reading, York and Lancaster as people search for less expensive housing.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 02-27-2012 at 02:37 PM..
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
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This is somewhat outdated but gives you an idea the county to county workforce coming and going. Based on 2000 Census.

Lehigh County Residences-Where they Work. Outgoing

Lehigh- 110,000
Northampton- 18,040
Montgomery-4,880
Bucks- 3,976
Berks- 3,266
Philadelphia- 578
Chester-464
Hunterdon-435
NY County-302


Lehigh County Employment- Where are they coming from.Incoming

Lehigh- 110,302
Northampton-30,108
Berks-6,538
Carbon-4,663
Bucks-2,655
Montgomery-2,004
Schuylkill-1,742
Philadelphia-293
NY-42
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:03 AM
 
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Default Metropolitan Statistical Areas

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Originally Posted by loose cannon View Post
Who gives a hoot! This territorial nonsense is something I do not subscribe to. This is the way it is. 60 miles from Philly, 90 miles from NYC. Enjoy your area and keep an eye on your closeby neighbors.
It's only nonsense if you are talking about casual discussion. But a lot of government and corporate planning does look at the metro area you are a part of.

Personally. I doubt that they will change the status by much. It is possible Warren county, NJ will be attached to NYC area based on Hackettstown getting bigger. Monroe county is becoming more and more part of the NYC metro area. But the Census departent will use certain statistics like the number of commuters to make their judgement. That's their job.

I doubt very much the ABE (including Carbon County) will be incorporated into the Philadelphia CMSA.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:11 AM
 
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Interesting stats. I found the inbound workers number surprising.
Quote:
There were 252,000 primary jobs in the Lehigh Valley.
• 172,000 of the jobs were held by residents.
• 80,000 were held by inbound commuters.
That means that about a third of the people that work in the LV are driving here from somewhere else. Another interesting tidbit was that MORE people work in Philadelphia then NYC, twice as many! But, that number is awfully small - 2.1% to 1%.

Rainrock, One thing you may have picked up on with Paco's stats is that he is using the whole Lehigh Valley. We generally don't think of just Lehigh County up here. The two cities of Allentown (Lehigh Cty) and Bethlehem (Northampton cty) are so close it's impossible to tell where one ends and the other begins.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
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Yes the difference in the 2 counties (Lehigh + Northampton)is pretty striking along commuting patterns. Lehigh seems to be much more integrated with Berks/Bucks/Montgomery whereas not surprisingly Northampton really seems to be commuter heavy with central Jersey.

You could see where eventually the Lehigh Valley would be a large connecting piece to a combined NYC/Philadelphia/Allentown/Trenton/Wilmington/Dover metropolitan region.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:37 AM
 
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Default Division

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainrock View Post
You could see where eventually the Lehigh Valley would be a large connecting piece to a combined NYC/Philadelphia/Allentown/Trenton/Wilmington/Dover metropolitan region.
One grouping of the 67 counties in PA has
Philadelphia urban: Philadelphia,Delaware (about 2 million)
Philadelphia suburban:Bucks. Chester. Montgomery (about 2 million)
Piedmont Berks, Cumberland, Dauphin, Lancaster, Lebanon. Lehigh. Northampton, York, Franklin, Adams(about 3 million)
Appalachian Region Commission was formed in the 1960's (about 5.8 million)

Of the 52 counties in Appalachian Region only 17 are currently growing in population, and the region as a whole is shrinking.

The federal government does acknowledge that central Appalachia refers to Kentucky and Tennessee, but they broadened their definition to include a big portion of Ohio, the Southern Tier in New York State, and most of the physical area of PA.

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Old 03-01-2012, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Manhattan
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Rainrock makes my point strongly: there is no quantifiable reason to include the Lehigh Valley in any concept of "Greater Philadelphia."
It is a job engine that defines a metropolitan area.


Quote:
Lehigh County Residences-Where they Work. Outgoing

Lehigh- 110,000
Northampton- 18,040
Montgomery-4,880
Bucks- 3,976
Berks- 3,266
Philadelphia- 578
Chester-464
Hunterdon-435
NY County-302
Thus if only 1/2 of 1% of Lehigh Valley working residents work in Philadelphia, then Philadelphia is completely irrelevant to the Lehigh Valley.
As a cultural engine I think it is probably even MORE irrelevant.
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