Honest opinion: Lehigh Valley or Harrisburg? (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: crime rates, homes, to live)

[toobusytoday]

I think there is a bar scene here, just no one mentioned it. Main Street Bethlehem (Moravian) and the South Side of Bethlehem (Lehigh) are both pretty lively.

BTW, PSU Lehigh Valley is pretty much a commuter campus. Another college in the area is DeSales University, also in Center Valley.

[MatildaLoo]

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

I think there is a bar scene here, just no one mentioned it. Main Street Bethlehem (Moravian) and the South Side of Bethlehem (Lehigh) are both pretty lively.

BTW, PSU Lehigh Valley is pretty much a commuter campus. Another college in the area is DeSales University, also in Center Valley.

Oh, that's a good point.

Bethlehem is known as the "City of Festivals." There's always something going on there, especially in the warmer weather months. It also has a pretty good nightlife. Personally I like the density of Harrisburg's better because if you don't like one restaurant/bar you can just pop over to another, but Bethlehem's isn't too bad.


Another plus in the Lehigh Valley column, and I hope this doesn't sound mean but it probably will, is that I've found people to be nicer here than any other place I've ever lived. In Harrisburg some people tend to act as though they can't be bothered forming relationships. Of course I can't say this about everyone, as I met some very nice people in Harrisburg as well. However, I've noticed more people being just generally pleasant and sociable in the Lehigh Valley.

[julian17033]

Originally Posted by blazerj

I'm not a 20 something, but with Lehigh, Layfayette, Moravian, Ceder Crest, PSU (in Center Valley), the 2 hospitals, how isn't there a bar/ club scene in the Lehigh Valley? What are all of those college/ grad students doing during the weekend?

Is it just more spread out than in Harrisburg?

There are bars and clubs just like in any city but the concentration of clubs and restaurants that one would consider a hot area of a city in my opinion just does not exist here in the Lehigh Valley.

Harrisburg's 2nd street scene is massive.

I'm 46 and don't go to nightclubs but do go to some trendy restaurants within the confines of the Lehigh Valley.

Any nightclub entertainment area is mainly confined to Bethlehem near many of the restaurants that I frequent.

[DowntownHarrisburg]

I'll post my thoughts over here, since there's more of a discussion going on here. Like I said in the Harrisburg forum, I haven't lived in Allentown so I really can't comment on it or compare the two. But there are two points I want to touch:

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

So the area near the bars on 2nd street is a safe area?

Unconditionally, absolutely, positively yes. To expand on what MatildaLoo said, we're a city. Situational awareness and common sense are the orders of the day. We have some bad people. If you go looking for trouble, you will find it. Most of the crime downtown is nuisance crime like disorderly conduct, littering, public drunkenness, that sort of thing.

Most of the violent crime in the city is confined to a few areas. Allison Hill should be avoided, and you'll run into some patchy neighborhoods north of Reilly Street. Unfortunately the crime in these areas is so bad that it really draws ruins our average. Harrisburg was recently ranked in the top 20 most dangerous cities in the US, and it's all because of some very bad neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by julian17033

Harrisburg's 2nd street scene is massive.

This is very, very true. Thousands and thousands of revelers are out every weekend, and you can walk from Irish pub to ultralounge to sports bar to dive bar to live music venue to another Irish pub to another ultralounge to another sports bar to another restaurant to yet another Irish pub to yet another ultralounge, and you still haven't seen it all. This is all within easy walking distance of the downtown apartment hirises, so no cab fare, no DUI, and no worries.

Keep in mind that none of this really compares to the nightlife you'll find in Philly or NY. But for a city of only 48,000, it's really impressive.

As for cost of living, I live in a penthouse apartment in a downtown hirise. My balcony overlooks the river, the beltway, and part of the city. I'm within a few blocks of just about everything. For this, I pay $790 / month, which includes all utilities.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by DowntownHarrisburg

As for cost of living, I live in a penthouse apartment in a downtown hirise. My balcony overlooks the river, the beltway, and part of the city. I'm within a few blocks of just about everything. For this, I pay $790 / month, which includes all utilities.

I remember in San Diego when a 550 sq ft studio topped half a million dollars. The so called "sunshine tax" became an overwhelming burden. It's a nice place, but often you sit at home in your tiny place wondering if you can spare enough to get a taco plate as you look at your massive mortgage or rent.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by DowntownHarrisburg

Most of the violent crime in the city is confined to a few areas. Allison Hill should be avoided, and you'll run into some patchy neighborhoods north of Reilly Street. Unfortunately the crime in these areas is so bad that it really draws ruins our average. Harrisburg was recently ranked in the top 20 most dangerous cities in the US, and it's all because of some very bad neighborhoods.

Statistics always overlook the incredible variance within a city.

In 2011 Reading moved from the poorest city in the USA to the 6th poorest. Census figures show the poverty rate has dropped from 41.3% in 2010 to 40.1% in 2011. Camden has assumed the #1 spot.

[jjayp]

Your information is very helpful. I definitely have a tough decision to make. The crime in Harrisburg is a tad disconcerting, but I do like the fact that there is a fairly younger crowd/downtown area that is more vibrant. I have heard that Bethlehem nightlife is pretty fun, as well.

Again, thanks a lot for those that responded. Also, my position is one where I don't have an office and mainly travel during the week so travel to an office is not a concern.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by jjayp

Also, my position is one where I don't have an office and mainly travel during the week so travel to an office is not a concern.

So you are basically using Allentown and Harrisburg as shorthand for eastern or central Pennsylvania. If I had a job like that I would certainly go to Eastern Pennsylvania. So if you have a client in Bucks county, then you can always park your car at a train station and go into Philadelphia for hockey game. Or if you have a client in Northern New Jersey (or even Easton PA), then you can drive you car the 60 miles to Newark, park your car and take a $2 train into NYC and catch a broadway play.

What is critical is you can work both cities, and NYC is much bigger and more interesting. From Harrisburg you will find it possible to go into Philadelphia, but the drive home from NYC will be too difficult to do very often.

If you spend a few years on the East Coast, then NYC is what you want to experience. Even if it is only on day trips.

As far as local bars and clubs, you can find one in any city. This isn't Amish country.

[jjayp]

No, the manager told me the position is for Harrisburg but he would let me live in Allentown if I chose to. So he gave me the two options. More of the clients are in Harrisburg, but Allentown is closer to some of the clients in NY, NJ. Thanks for all the info.

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

So you are basically using Allentown and Harrisburg as shorthand for eastern or central Pennsylvania. If I had a job like that I would certainly go to Eastern Pennsylvania. So if you have a client in Bucks county, then you can always park your car at a train station and go into Philadelphia for hockey game. Or if you have a client in Northern New Jersey (or even Easton PA), then you can drive you car the 60 miles to Newark, park your car and take a $2 train into NYC and catch a broadway play.

What is critical is you can work both cities, and NYC is much bigger and more interesting. From Harrisburg you will find it possible to go into Philadelphia, but the drive home from NYC will be too difficult to do very often.

If you spend a few years on the East Coast, then NYC is what you want to experience. Even if it is only on day trips.

As far as local bars and clubs, you can find one in any city. This isn't Amish country.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by jjayp

No, the manager told me the position is for Harrisburg but he would let me live in Allentown if I chose to. So he gave me the two options. More of the clients are in Harrisburg, but Allentown is closer to some of the clients in NY, NJ. Thanks for all the info.

Some companies don't nickel and dime their employees on travel, and others torture them by making them wait for hours on inconvenient flights to save $30 in airfare.

Does your job involve flying, or just automobile travel? Can you go on trains if possible, or do you need a big trunk to carry your gear?

Do they give you car? My former roomate worked at GEICO and they maintained a car for him. He had to claim a certain number of miles every month for personal use and pay a mileage fee to satisfy the IRS, but his boss encouraged him to keep the miles low (since it would make everyone else in the office look
bad).

So if you live in Harrisburg, and you go to see a client in NYC. Would you be expected to:
(1) make it a day trip
(2) spend the night in Manhattan $204-$295 hotel room, $80 parking & tolls
(3) spend the night in Newark, NJ $120 hotel room, $21 parking
(4) you are an independent contractor, you pay your own travel expenses.

A cost conscious company may require you to go to stay at Newark Train station and take a 22 minute $2-$5 train ride the ten miles into Manhattan. Another kind of company might say stay in the city and have a good time.
Newark Hotels | Hilton Newark Penn Station | Newark, NJ

Do you have clients in Berks county and Philadelphia area as well?

If you are going to spend 90% of your time in Dauphin county, then you should move to Harrisburg.